Remington Parker AAHE 28
 

I'm hoping to get some feedback on CSMC's Remington Parker AAHE 28.
These Parkers are built by CSMC under contract from Remington.
They start at 49K ... not sure how many have been built, or if they are still building them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Merry Christmas !

They are nicely made and shoot well. They are still being made, call CSMC for details.

We had one on exhibit at a Pheasants Forever event in Nebraska a few years ago, where the gun drew a lot of interest. The engraving style and configuration is consistant with late Remington-Parker production. The engraving is hand cut. The gun has a solid feel when shooting.

Bruce, You shot one of Tony's new Parker 28 gauges?! That must have been a treat.

I've handled one and it really felt like the classic that it is. Exceptionally well balanced and very dynamic in mounting and swing. I bought a couple of $100 tickets when the RGS was raffling one but just couldn't seem to raise the $49K to buy one from Galazan.

As I recall, one appeared at the Vintagers a few years back. I don't recall who brought it down.

Remington offered a similar gun back in the early 80's (?) I've got the order sheet somewhere in my man pit. Seems to me that the price was about $12K. Not sure how many were ever built. Were the Del Gregos involved in that project?

John, Remington never produced the gun, deposits were sent back to customers that ordered the gun. Seems the safetyon the gun and the legal department at Remington put an early end to the gun.

John, Remington produced a limited number of 20ga A grades in the 1980's and provided them to executives. The gun had a modified Model 32 single trigger assembly . These were prototypes for a production run which did not proceed. In the 1990's, the PGCA acquired the remaining available new A 20ga and through a mail in auction, sold it to a member in SoCal. That gun was sold again last year. There is a Parker Pages article by Austin Hogan about these few guns that might answer any questions you have. The PGCA produced a single fold flyer about the gun and auction and provided that to all members and DGJ subscribers. I still have my copy.

I know of no connection of this project to the Del Grego's.

The last time I was in the Remington archives, besides the record books, they still had a couple of rough finished Parker guns from the 80s run and numerous bins of internal parts. Do not know if they still have either gus or parts.

I had the chance to see and handle one of the AAHE 28s at CSMC last year.
It was nice. They are fully made by CSMC with Remington only providing the licensing of the name and the website.
I personally hope that they consider making a lower grade. That way they would sell better to more common folk. Much like their Foxes are made in different grades. At $49k, the number of buyers are going to be limited.
I did ask them about how many they have actually sold since the beginning of their offering. They said only about a dozen.

I'm now 175 miles away from my man pit, so I can't look up the order sheet and description I have. I think the safety issue was that the Parker didn't pass Remington's "Slam Test" which I think involved banging the gun on a hard surface. Gotta love them lawyers

Lawyers had little to do with it, John. The Mod 32 trigger resolved slam fire concerns which were entirely of Remington's standards and not an industry standard. The problem was manufacturing expertise and expense. You'll note that the present Parker is manufactured with either the original Parker double or single trigger. The CSMC manufacturing abilities resolved manufacturing ability issues. The expense issue is open to discussion.

Thank you all for your feedback .... much appreciated !

There must be a fairly healthy royalty to Remington when you consider the $49,000 price versus one of Tony's deluxe Foxes or double rifles

I think that also it is the very low quantity of production and the fully made to order nature of the gun.
If they were to offer a lower grade, and more people bought it, I would expect price to proportionately much more reasonable.
I did inquire with them about if they were considering offering lower grades and gauges. They said they were in "talks" about it, but that is all they said.
I would think that there would be a long order list for a DHE 20g that was priced like their entry level Fox guns.

CSMC had originally anticipated producing as many as ten per year but that dream never came to fruition.

Regarding the Remington Parker revival guns see the Parker Pages, Winter 2010 issue for a few pictures of one in Kenneth Goldenberg's collection.

I suspect that, even if CSMC chose to produce a "lower" grade Parker, it would likely cost $8,000 - $10,000 to produce in the US. The Parker is a relatively complex gun with many closely fitted parts. One approach might be to redesign the mechanism to a simpler (i.e. Fox) design, while keeping the Parker exterior. But, then would it be a Parker?

Remington actually took that route after production on Parkers stopped. Their plan was to buy Fox guns and profile the receivers to look like Parkers and sell them with the Parker name. The PGCA research committee may be in possession of memos to that effect.

In my opinion, No it wouldn't be a Parker by any stretch of the imagination.

CSMC already has the machining programs in their data-base for the Parker and could produce these guns nearly as cheaply as the RBL or any of the other guns they manufacture. The expense would be in producing the various frame sizes. Personally, I'd be happy with just the 00-Frame twenty-eight bore Parker... but others would prefer a larger frame size.

Is a CSMC-built Remington Parker AAHE considered a real Parker or is it a reproduction?

Commissioned by Remington Arms to original Parker standards, in my opinion it is as real a new Parker as you can get today... only it is produced in a different, modern plant by, of course, different employees (nobody lives forever - even in earlier Parker days).

Perfectly acceptable 28 gauge and .410 bore guns can be reproduced using either the 000 or the 00 frame for either gauge. The factory produced both gauges of gun on both sizes of frame, so Tony could do the same. With the proliferation of Parker Repro 20 gauges for $3000 to $4000, the market for the expensive Galazan version would be nonexistent.

You could say the same thing about Parker Reproductions, except they were commissioned by Tom Skeuse, Sr. instead of Remington, eh?

Here are my thoughts as a Parker shooter, collector and enthusiast.

I don't use the term "real Parker". There are various Parkers and all are interesting, desirable and have their own merits depending upon personal preference details, availability and costs.

These include Parker Bros ( Meriden), Remington Parker transition guns ( Meriden), Remington Parker ( Ilion), Parker Reproduction ( I use this term because that is what the maker called them) and the new Remington CSMC Parkers. I have or have had them all except the new Remington CSMC Parker and I would be very interested in that gun.....only if. I only exclude the 1980's Remington Parkers because there are just a handful of them.

Great guns, all of them.

As I recall from seeing the Goldenberg gun, it isn't an unadorned production model. How about that, Dean? Right or wrong?

I would say that it is considered a "real" Parker since it is being made under license by the company that owns the rights to the actual brand and design.
And I think they are even carrying on with the serialization as well. But I may be mistaken.

Of course, cost could be saved by going with The Hayes prototype design, but that never got fully off the ground in Meriden, so it could not be called full out Parker today.

.... Right! I was there too when Ken opened the case at Pintail.


You can say that again Bill. What a nice Parker that is.

OK, for use folks that weren't there when Ken opened up the case, please describe the gun for us. I'm assuming it is one of the Remington Parkers made in the 1980's??? Gauge, grade, etc.

I've done a few letters for him, he lives in the next town over from where I grew up. I may need to pay him a visit next time I'm in the area.

It would be very hard to make a case for anyone to produce an 'affordable' Parker in today's world. The best example is circa 1994 when they were practically giving away the Repro's. Who wants to be the guy who steps up to be the next to give away Parkers?

But no, the last real Parker was shipped sometime in the 1940's. The rest are all fine guns, to be sure, but only a person who had never made anything with his own two hands could call them real Parkers. Because if we allow CSMC to produce a 'real' Parker, then there's no further distinction to letting Rong Fu Arms produce one in the middle of China. A Parker is more than the name or the 'rights' to who owns the name. There's the real deal, then there's the followers.

We've been over the "Real Parker" issue several times before both on this forum and on the previous forum as well. Some have even made the distinction that the only "Real Parkers" were the ones made in Meriden by Parker Bros. and that the Parker shotguns produced by Remington in the Illion plant are nothing more than early reproductions. I wouldn't draw such a fine line as that and I am of the mind that the Parkers made by or commissioned by or authorized by the owner of the name are in fact "Real Parkers". But that's just me.... everybody has an opinion and everybody has a right to voice their opinion - but we've been here before and there were never any conclusions drawn then either.

It's a "real" Parker if you are allowed to shoot it in the Parker vs. Smith challenge.

Is licensing the reason Parker Repros are not allowed to be shot in The Challenge Cup?

Well, the argument will go on forever. But I place little value in the ownership of a name.

If Lisa Marie Presley decides to hire some guy start recording Elvis records, that doesn't mean it's an Elvis record.

Please excuse me from any further participation in the argument.

An argument with no answer. Chicken or the egg?

There is no answer.... there is only opinion.

For us new guys around Parkers, who owns the name "Parker Brothers"?

Galazan makes fine shotguns no doubt but I personally see better value in a GG engraved A1 special repro at less than half the price of a Galazan AAHE repro. Or an original A1 for less money (Julia Auction, page 8, Parker Pages, V20, Issue 4).

The trademark name Parker Gun is owned by Remington Arms I believe.

However, there is a small company manufacturing an O/U shotgun under the name Parker Brothers.