Parker two barrelled two ga. set
 

Hello, I am new to the forums and am trying to get information on a Parker D2 16 Ga. 28 inch 2 1/2 inch with a second set of barrels 12 Ga, serialed to the gun and marked #2 on barrels and forearm that I acquired several weeks ago. I don't know how rare this is if at all, but want to restore the set. The metal is in good shape and the barrels are in very good shape with good bores on both. The bad news is that the forearms are worn, and someone has modified the butt stock, taken off all the checkering, slimed the stock and it has a repaired crack. I do not think the butt stock is restorable and am wondering if I should just try to find a stock for it or get it re-stocked. It is in the 60xxx serial range and I have sent in a request for a factory letter. According to the serialization book it was made as a D2, 16 Ga. made in 1891 with 28 inch barrels which are there. The second set must have been made later and are also serialed to the gun, 12 Ga. with forearm and 3 inch chambers 30 inches long. It is a cool combination and I would like to restore it and am looking for recommendations. Thanks very much!

Chip Beckford

Chip, it is pretty rare to find a two-barrel, two-gauge set even for a gun that went back subsequent to manufacture for the second set in a different gauge. It will be very interesting to learn what the letter has to say - please share it with us.
BTW, is it a hammer gun or a hammerless? Sounds like it will need a re-stock, especially if it is a hammer gun.
Dean

Parker Two Barrel Set Guns
 

Two of my first Parkers were two barrel set guns. One was bought by accident; a large southern dealer offered an interesting lifter gun in Gun List; I bought it and it arrived with two barrel sets of matching gauge and weight. I later found out that early live bird shooters often used two barrel sets to prevent burning fingers.
The second was found locally, within a few miles of its original buyer's home. It was a two gauge, two steel, two barrel set. It was very interesting and the subject of an article in Parker Pages before 1999. The 10 gauge barrels were Dam 4 and 26 inches, the 12 ga barrels were B4 and 30 inches. It was a combination light 10 and heavy 12. The serialization indicates it is a 26 inch B4.
I tried collecting two barrel sets for a while; I managed to find grades 1,2,3, and 4, and duplicate the grade 2 in lifter action. I never found a top action two barrel set, and the only zero grade was in condition two grades below the bottom.

To be continued

Best, Austin

Two barrel sets
 

I tried to complete the first reply by editing but it did not take.

I found two match balance two barrel sets. One was a Dam3 with 30 inch ten and twelve gauge barrels that matched weight within two ounces, and balance within my ability to measure. This gun was returned to Parker several times for repairs, restock and rebrown, but there are no entries that show both barrel sets.

The second is a Dam 2 twelve gauge with 30 inch waterfowl barrels and 26 inch upland barrels. This two frame gun weighs less than 7 pounds with its upland barrels, and more than 8 pounds with the 30 inch barrels. It is thoroughly specified and occupies a quarter page in the order book. Both barrel sets are specified to be chambered 2 7/8 inch.

I really learned a lot about Parker gun fitting from these two barrel sets. It appears that Parkers' fitters could achieve two barrel set balance match with almost any gauge/length combination by adjusting the "swamp" between breech and fore end tip.

To be continued again

Best, Austin

Two Barrel Set Guns Part 3
 

Two barrel set gun collecting is a pretty advanced notch (or nich) in Parker collecting. I ceased chasing two barrel set guns because it required one to accept a pretty significant reduction in condition to obtain them. I have found a couple more interesting two barrel sets in decent condition in the last ten years, but they are seldom seen.

Analyzing Charlie Price's Serialization shows these two barrel sets in the 55000 - 70000
serial range ( ie early hammerless plus exposed hammer)
59 Twelve ga hammerless
5 Sixteen ga Hammerless
4 Twelve ga top action
0 Sixteen ga top action
This totals 68 two barrel sets among 15000 serial numbers, or 5 two barrel sets per 1000 guns. Note that the format used in the Serialization does not allow two gauge, two length or two steel two barrel sets to be identified. Also note that the great preponderance of Parker guns are in Grades 0,1,and 2 which are often missing from the serialization. It would seem that considerable knowledge or perhaps a seance with Mr King,is required to identify a two barrel set that left the factory in that form from this era.

Conversely, replacement Parker barrels were not available from an equivalent of NAPA at this time. A set of Parker barrels required a rib cut and roll marked on Parker's tooling, even if barrels from another supplier were used to make the set. Otherwise,a second set of barrels required breaking another Parker.
It is known that Parker and Remington supplied whole guns in unfinished form to custom gunsmiths for finishing. Parker may have sold barrel sets as well. Is it possible to identify file strokes made somewhere other than Meriden in fitting the replacement barrels?

Best, Austin

Some years ago I picked up this well used 1889-vintage heavy 2-frame Damascus barrel 12-gauge, that was back to Meriden some time after 1918 for a set of 32-inch Vulcan Steel, 3-inch chambered, 20-gauge barrels with forearm. The 12-gauge Damascus barrels are very thick and straight with little or no swamp and the gun weighs just over nine pounds with them in place. The 20-gauge barrels swamp a lot and the gun weighs 8 pounds 4.5 ounces with them in place. I displayed this gun at The Vintage Cup at Sandanona in 2005, and also had it with me and showed it around some at Pintail Point in 2008, though I was working the A.H. Fox Collectors booth then.

2 BARREL SETS
 

THE 2010 RAFFLE GUN a GHE is a two barrel set.

Austin
Thank you. I had no idea two barrel sets were that unusual. I shoot a nice DH 12/12 with a 30" Mod/full and a 28' imp/mod. I also have a CHE 20/20 28" skeet /skeet & 28" mod/full. I treasure those guns and now even more so.
Thanks
David

With only a 164 fluid steel 20 ga. CH's I would think yours is very uncommon David.

Hi Dean, I should have mentioned it, it is a hammerless. I will try to get some pictures over the holidays, Thanks for the note, Chip

CH SN 65,557, heavy 12ga Bernard, light 10ga Damascus. #2 frame.

Hi Austin, Thanks for the information. I will look at the barrels to see the weights and forward the information. As I mentioned I want to restore it and it probably will need a re-stock. I did talk to Wenigs this morning to get some costs. Any suggestions from any of you on a reasonable priced stocker would be appreciated. Thanks again, Chip

HI Again, Thank you to all of you who have answered my questions so far. I will try to get some pictures of this set over the holidays, and am looking forward to getting the research letter back to continue the story. I do want to restore this and am excited about getting more information and thoughts from you all.

Chip Beckford

There is a good stockist up in Wisconsin somewhere who is a buddy of Glenn Fewless. Suggest you private message Glenn and ask about his buddy. He and Glenn came up to the last UP shoot and to the Puglisi Duluth shoot.

The trouble with most aftermarket stocks is that they do not look like Parker stocks.

I agree with Bruce. A stocker who can duplicate the seemingly insignificant nuances of an original Parker stock (which actually define an original Parker stock) is a rare find indeed.

Austin mentions serial numbers of 70000 and under so I wonder if the two bbl sets were more common under the Remington era. I have a GHE 16 skeet two bbl set and have owned two other two bbl sets both GHE one a 20 the other a 12 trap/skeet set.

Two Barrel Set Guns
 

Rich; I took a look at the 235000 plus serial range; Parkers with "extras" seem more "popular" with respect to number made at that time. There were about ten "all up" guns, trap foreend, vent rib, single trigger, two barrel sets. Perhaps trap/skeet combos or two gauge skeet sets. One would have to examine the individual records to know.

Best, Austin

I would bet there are/were more than ten "all up" sets as my 16GHE is a skeet/trap set and letters with all the extras, SST,BTF, VR and the GHE 12 was the set up the same way. Both sets of bbls have their own forarm. It would seem unlikely to me that I would have two of the ten. The GHE 20 was a field gun with 28 & 30 inch bbls, PG, splinter forarms and DT. I wish I had that one back:crying:

I had and subsequently sold two original Remington beavertail forends for D and C grade guns and both were stamped with a 2 above the serial number. So, that accounts for two and neither of them were in the ID & Ser. book.

HI Bruce, Thanks for the note, as I am new at this, how do I find Glenn? Thanks, Chip

HI Austin, the barrel weight on the 16 Ga, 28 inch is as marked with a 3, 1 and a 4, for 3 1/4? the 12 Ga 30 inch is marked with a 4 and 7, 4lbs 7 oz? Chip

You can reach Glenn through the "Members List" on this site, but here's a shortcut for you:
http://parkerguns.org/forums/member.php?u=215
Then click on "send message", a drop down menu will appear, then click on "send a private message to Glenn" and from there you should be able to figure it out...

Weight Stamp
 

Chip The 3 1 and 4 probably indicate 3 pounds 14 ounces if it stamped to look like 3 to the 14th power. This was the weight of the barrel blank before filing and fitting. About 15 - 20% of the original weight was filed away in finishing.

Best, Austin

Thanks Austin I appreciate it! Have a great Holiday, Chip

HI Bruce, I sent him a note but have not heard from him yet! Hopefully I will hear from him in the near future, thanks Chip

E. Robert
Some further research on the CHE 20/20 skeet indicates that it is the only one made. TPS states tht only seven 20 ga skeet guns were manufactured and this seem to be the only two barrel set. A blind hog found an acorn!
David

Yes, I've heard that happens once in awhile.

My guess is that two barrel 20 ga skeet gun is quite valuable if Galazan's is able to get their price they are asking for a CHE 12 ga. Skeet $14995.00

HI All, well I got the factory letter yesterday, Wow is this neat. The gun was ordered 2/2/1890 and shipped to the John Meunier Gun Company in Milwaukee on May 26, 1890. All the info as to the gun is the same as the info I have, GH hammerless 16 GA. Dam. Steel Barrels, 28 inches long, capped stock , full/mod, weight 7 lbs 8 oz. Price was $80.00! It was shipped back to Parker on April 24th 1891 buy Meuneir Gun Co. to fit 12 GA. 30 inch Twist barrels chocked full/full weight 8 lbs. cost $30.00 It was returned by Frank Meixner in Milwaukee in Feb 1899 to fix the action, and again in April of 1902 by Frank Meixner to solder rib and rebrown barrels. Mark also included a note that 2 barreled two ga. sets are rare. (even a blind hog finds acorns) and that I should try to fix the stock. I am not sure this is possible due to the damage and will check that out. It would need extensive restoration on the stock as the checkering is sanded off and the stock comb is slimmed and there is a hump about 3 inches from the butt. I am thrilled with this information as I am familiar with John Meuneir Gun Company as he was very well known in this area for Schutzen rifles and catering to the German community. Any help on thoughts on restoration is appreciated. I will try to get some pictures as soon as posible. Thanks to all of you who have helped so far, you are a great bunch, and this is fun!

Chip

Hello All, Happy New Year! In talking with another member he suggested that I ask for all your thoughts on who to get to do the restoration on my set. If any of you have any suggestions please send me a private message. I also talked to a restoration person in Michigan and saw some of their work on their site. Have any of you used Bachelder out of Michigan ? It looks like the butt stock will have to be replaced, but that at least one if not both fore ends may be savable, whcth will help with the cost. I also have talked to the people that I got the shotgun from and they are going to forward a letter from me to the person they got it from so hopefully I can trace it further from where it went after 1902!

Thanks for all the help everyone. Chip

PM sent
Eric

Chip, you're lucky to have that lead to previous owners. That kind of link is usually lost, especially when these guns go through dealers rather than families.

Many years ago I just missed the opportunity to buy a DHE 16 ga that had documented links to Dwight D. Eisenhower with photos, letters from and to Eisenhower and Peter Johnson's book inscribed by Eisenhower. but someone beat me to the purchase. Mere days later I found he had sold it to Riley's in New Hampshire and when I went there the gun was for sale at more than twice the price I could have bought it for and Riley's knew absolutely nothing about the link to Eisenhower, the pics, letters or book. The guy obviously got rid of those somewhere else and the link was lost forever . . . :banghead:

HI Dean, That is a shame. I always try to get what information I can, and the sellers are working with me. Hopefully the person they got it from will get back with me! Hope springs eternal! Happy New Year, Chip

Maryland amrs collectors show
 

HI All, I wanted to ask if any of you are coming to the Maryland Arms collectors show in march? I am going to bring out this two barreled set to the show to hopefully get some opinions from other Parker members. I have been pondering the direction I should go, and if some of you are going to be at the show it would be fun to meet you and get your opinions. I have a table there and can let you know the number, even though I am guilty of roaming around a lot! As someone said in a post I read today, Parker collecting is very addictive!:)

Chip Beckford

Chip,

Bill Murphy and Kevin McCormack have a table set up there every year. I assume this year will be no different. You won't find two more knowledgeable Parker guys anywhere. Bill will probably be along any minute to add information. I usually try to be there also.

Our tables at Baltimore are B-4 and B-5, easy to find. I would love to see this great gun. The weight of the original 16 gauge is unusually heavy.

Maryland amrs collectors show
 

HI Bill, Thanks for the note, I will look you up when I get there, as I am new to the "Parker" collecting, even though I have owned several for years, I do not know that the weight is heavy. I am learning thanks to all of you great folks and am looking forward to having you look at this set! I think it is worth restoring and am just taking my time to figure it out and learn. Thanks again to all of you who have responded. See you in March.Chip