20ga DHE Damascus 1891
 

Good morning to all,

I am interested in getting some help in valuing my Parker 20ga DHE that has been handed down through the family for over 100 years. Attached are some pictures. The gun appears to be in good working order and records indicate that it was manufactured in 1891. I do see what appears to me to be some pitting and unfortunately the butt has a small chip with a dented butt plate. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Additional info.... I am not sure that this is a DHE - likely just a DH...

Where is and how bad is the pitting? It looks like the barrels have retained a fair amount of the original damascus finish.

What I am seeing as pitting may simply be normal aging. The gun is nice and clean, and the previously attached pictures are representative of the entire finish. I'm just not that familiar with "condition grading" to make any good judgements. Maybe some closeups will help you.

Ok, "pitting" normally brings to mind the condition of the bores, the inside of the barrels, how are they?

The gun (admittedly i am looking at it on the phone) looks good to me.

The out side finish has some "patina" but i do not see where rust has caused any pits in the metal.

I am sure other who can see the pictures better will comment, but other than some dings in the wood, with my limited view - it looks nice for its age. I would say do not do anything to it until it has been evaulated by an expert.

Looks like you have a great, un-messed with, early 20-gauge DH-Grade. A family gun to be very proud of!! Go to the sites home page. In the column on the left pick Research Letters. Then on the Research Letters page pick the here in red. When the box appears type in your serial number, and you will find the PGCA has records on your gun. So, join the PGCA and order a research letter.

The accident on the toe of the stock can likely be repaired by a good stock man, but I'd think long and hard before doing anything but a gentle cleaning to such a wonderful old gun. Once vetted by a qualified double gun smith, I'd be getting a flat of RST 2 1/2 inch, 3/4 ounce, 20-guage shells and having at it.

That is a very well cared-for Parker. You're a licky man to have a family gun as nice as that one. A gentle cleaning is all that gun needs.

This is a perfect example of an untouched Parker that could lose at least $2000 of its value in a restoration effort. What a great little 20.

1891 D-grade 20 on an O-frame? How many were made prior to that one?

Well everyone, I am a little embarrassed as it now appears that this is a 16 gauge gun. A 20 Ga. snap cap is swallowed by the chamber. I have also looked at the bore and do see what I would call a fair amount of pitting even though the bore is nice and shiney. Pictures are attached but as my photo equipment is not designed to take such a picture the pitting that I see is hard to capture. Does anyone have some sample pictures of pitting that I can use of comparison?

Not sure that I would want to shoot this due to it's age. I may be interested in selling it and if I keep it I may want to insure it. Can anyone provide me with a ballpark value?

Thanks.

I didn't want to say anything because I've seen plenty of errors in the book, but it is listed as a 16.

A 16 with the pits that we can see and the condition of the gun in general, it is still a $1000 to $2000 gun.

Button up your shirt bill. Your heart is about to fall on the floor.:)

I'm not sure if that is a very close estimate after seeing a handful of pictures. It's worth more IMHO without having it in hand. I would have a Parker skilled gunsmith such as Delgrego, Bachelder, or Turnbull take a look at it if you have questions. Either way a great gun.

Bill, your comment indicates that you believe the gun us worth more that $2000. Is that what you were trying to imply? Looking at a 1994 edition of the Blue Book I see that a 16ga at 80% of original case colors is valued at $2675. Can I infer that you believe the gun to be graded at 80%? Can anyone provide me with 2012-13 Blue Book values?

100 years in the same family now he might want to sell it:shock: so he's trolling for value.

Just an FYI you have to be a PGCA member to sell guns on this site.

Phillip, not only are we not using the 1994 Blue Book, or any Blue Book, the gun has morphed from a 20 gauge with good bores to a 16 with bad bores. However, only a close inspection will tell whether the bores can be cleaned up.

Question why would you look at a 1994 edition Blue Book it has no baring on price today.:eek: As Bill says the gun needs to be in hand so see the condition of the bores.

So sorry that I have shocked you Richard. I didn't realize that people on this forum were so critical. I am not a collector, I'm a shooter, but would never consider shooting this particular firearm. My reference to the "100 years in the family" was only to provide information regarding provenance. If I owned the Colt Paterson that my Great Great Grandfather carried as a Texas Ranger or any of the weapons that my Great Grandfather carried onto the Civil War Battlegrounds, be assured that they would be my most cherished possessions. The Parker is a beautiful gun and would look very nice on someones wall. If this gun has value to someone else why should I not sell it? FYI, if I do sell it, I will not do so on the PGCA site. Furthermore, I was unaware that "trolling for value" was not allowed on the site.

"Furthermore, I was unaware that "trolling for value" was not allowed on the site. "

Well at least he admitted to "trolling" gotta give him credit for that Rich..:rotf:

Wonder how many "PM's" he has gotten.

Phillip, you say your a shooter, not a collector. If that's true, this Parker doesn't belong on a wall, it belongs in a safe waiting for it's next trip afield or clay target range! Perfectly shootable if the barrels check OK.

This gun has been used but is in no way 80% condition IMO. No case colors left, stock chipped, and minor pitting in the bores. It's a nice honest 16ga Parker and deserves to be shot with low pressure loads.

I bet he has got many... It's a great project gun at this point. Something I would leave to others with deeper pockets than I...

This is getting personal and way off task. "Trolling" was not my term. Seems that you guys have a pretty tight cliche going on here. I am simply a guy looking for some advice and opinions about a Parker from "the experts". Is that a crime? It would be nice if I you all would stay on topic rather than being critical and sarcastic. As far as PMs go - yes I have had some. Is replying to them a violation of the rules of the forum?

Thanks for the constructive comments Chuck. Would you tell me what you mean by "case colors"? It is becoming clear that I need to have this looked at by several qualified individuals as determining condition can be somewhat subjective and also important with regards to safety if shooting the gun is being considered. Will investigate my options here in Houston.

Photo of the PGCA exhibit that several of us did at the Houston NRA show, May 3-5, 2013. There were some nice articles about the Parker exhibit in the Houston paper , which people mentioned.

We answered lots of Parker questions from attendees.

Next year's NRA convention will be in Louisville in May and I believe that there will likely be a Parker exhibit there. Or there will be the PGCA annual meeting in Sept this year back east. For a person who wants to know about and see Parkers, these might be good opportunities.

Phillip,

You have to realize that we get many posts such as yours asking "What is my Parker worth" That's not a problem, just difficult to judge value from a description or photo's. Then, during the gun being discussed, the owner puts in that he wants to or is thinking of selling the gun, just as you did. That is not allowed by the PGCA unless you are a PGCA member. In that case there is a forum for PGCA members to sell guns. Only PGCA members can see this forum. I don't think you were being sly about saying it may be for sale, you just didn't realize it was against the rules. Usually when it's mentioned for sale, the owner gets PM's from PGCA members and non members, who are interested in the gun.

As far a case colors and what they look like, look at the receiver water table and the underside of the forend metal. You can see traces of this color. The entire receiver and forend metal should look like this. The bone and charcoal method of case hardening imparts carbon into the metal and adds color. The case colors are only a few thousands of an inch thick and can be worn off by handling and shooting the gun.

I have to say some of the initial comments would probably lead a novice astray. Is it a nice gun? Sure. Is it a great gun or a wonderfully original example of a Parker? No. It has various condition issues and could have cared for a tad better over the years. It's probably in what one might terms 50% condition - half the Parkers you see are better, half are worse.

Here is what he wants IMHO. $1500.00 As is with no other issues. Gerald.

Philip, a 16 gauge, 0-frame DH with original barrel length of 28" and the original wood and skeleton butt is a very desirable and valuable Parker... to say nothing of the top lever still being well to the right, indicating it has been used regularly but not to the extent that parts have become excessively worn. As I said previously, all it needs is a good cleaning - NOT a refinish - and then leave it as is. Shoot it and hunt with it and you'll never want to part with it.

And how does Gerald come up with this information?

I see a damaged stock. 50% right off the top. Gerald.

Maybe if you gave it to a shoemaker to fix.
A Good stock man can fix that so it would be very difficult to detect.

Clean it up. Fix it up. Bring it back. We will do it again as is. Gerald

Huh?

Bill it's the crystal Ball of Parker values, I'm surprised you don't have one. mine says your 410 VHE skeet gun is worth $5000. I'm sending a check to Linda please ship to my home address.:)

You wouldn't want my .410 skeet. It is a field used shooter, just like I have been looking for for 50 years. A beater. Maybe I'll bring it to the Northeast.

Mine is WAAAAAAAAAY worse, you should see it LOL :)

But all joking aside Mr. Brown....this group is one of the best, honest, kindest, and most knowledgeable when it comes to your Parker. They wouldn't bs you and they shoot straight from the hip with no sugar coating when it comes to their opinion. Each one has something valuable to contribute when it comes to their thoughts, knowledge and opinions....some in your favor and some not. My old Parker has definitely seen better days but these guys gave me their honest opinion when I didn't know a thing about what I had etc. They know their Parker's from front to back because they own them, shoot them, research them and enjoy everything about them.

My point being....take everything with a grain of salt and take each bit of information and opinion to be 100% honest. Great group here really. IMHO:bigbye:

He wants to know what it is worth. A better way to find out is put it on Gun Broker with no reserve.