Cliff Green Parker's for Sale
 

I see Galazans has Mr. Green's 4-barrel two gun set for sale. I have a DGJ from 1991 with an ad from Chadicks offering them for $250,000. How much does Tony want for them now?

It's a new pricing system. It is POR. WTF?

Good luck getting them to reply to a request for a price by email. And I really wanted a shot at them this time.

Their presumption, probably, is that if you are serious about buying them you'll be willing to pay for a long distance phone call.

maybe they are too embarrassed to post it.

Tony Galazan and Lou Frutoso have come from nothing and built a major business making fine shotguns and buying and reselling classic maker guns. I doubt they are embarrassed about anything. They have also been significant supporters and friends of the PGCA. We recently spent time with Lou trying to explain that the unpleasant forum comments of a few are not representative of the PGCA as a whole and we thanked them for the past participation and hoped their goodwill would continue.

Like anything costly, why create a buzz about how much it costs. People know certain guns are expensive, and like fine cars, art, anything, if you have interest and are more than a tire kicker, a serious person will call. Call on a cell phone under a minutes plan if a person is concerned about the buck or two to call and talk to Lou.

Its a fine Parker, rare, highly unusual, and its one I can admire but leave to the wealthy, and maybe someday get to handle. In the meantime, I'll go back to my old beaters and kinda wish I had the means to get involved in something like those guns.

I think its only logical not to post a price on this item. If they do sell, the buyer deserves the right to have that info, and he can do with it what he wants. He paid for that right. We just need a buyer to step forward. Dave

Just playing devil's advocate, here, but Herschel advertised the Green guns for $250,000 and no one has any idea how much was paid for them. Does Lou really have time to answer phone call from everyone who "wants to know"? I like Tony and Lou a lot, but they're men and don't need BD to defend them.

So do you think Julia's should keep all the auction sales prices secret?

They can if they wish to. It's their call and how they decide to do business. I personally like knowing the numbers as it helps to get a sense of the mkt.

Who is Cliff Green anyway? Australian screen writer? US Basketball player?

Since you're in tight with them, explain how an auctioneer could keep anyone from knowing the hammer? Does he zap everyone on the floor with a Certified MIB memory zapper, and telepathically make everyone watching all the online bidding services go dumb?

Edgar, I'm not in tight with them and I was referring to whether or not they choose to PUBLISH the hammer results. But maybe you're right - they may zap them on the floor! omg

$250K is a lot to pay for any gun with unfashionably short barrels.

Although Mr. Murphy at times struggles with expressing himself, he does bring up a good point - one that I ponder at length. It is the business model of American business, and for all I know all businesses everywhere:

Business Model:

1) Be in business
2) Create Website to keep up with the times
3) Add a 'Contact Us' icon, with room for potential customers to contact you via email
4) Ignore all emails sent to the 'Contact Us' mailbox

Good wry humor Fishtail! Way to go! What would the world be without us cynics?

Greg, Mr. Murphy does not struggle with expressing himself, he just expresses himself a bit more often than prudent. Thanks for the diagnosis.

Greg, you better watch what you say about Galazan company. Recently, a member sought references about the Galazan company and I shared my experience (similar to yours apparently) which was deemed unfavorable by one of the moderators. He deleted my post and sent me a PM to the effect that I should not state anything about the company that isn't favorable except he did give me permission to do it by PM. When I replied to the moderator's PM why PGCA felt it needed to delete an honest response to an honest inquiry, I was not favored with a reply.

There is a certain love affair with some here when it comes to the Galazan company. I understand Mr Galazan is a strong PGCA supporter. So the company gets a pass. (nothing here should be construed as a comment on any individual-we're talking about a company, right?). I'm sure you didn't intend by your comments to be negative, but be careful with any comments that could in any way to construed as negative or you will probably get a note from someone.

So, who is Cliff Green anyway? I plead ignorance on this name.

Ray, That sounds very much like censorship, and a violation of rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. That stuff happens in China, but, surely not here in America.
FWIW, I have no issues with that company, but find an individual associated with it to be without scruples, morals or conscience.

Edgar, I was going to start a thread about it when it happened but I thought discretion was the better part of valor. It doesn't just sound like censorship-it is censorship!

My comment then was merely that my experience with the company was that customer service was poor and others shared that view. It was not a comment about any particular person. Similar comments had been made in prior posts but I was admonished for mine. I thought I was owed an explanation as to why honest comment was disfavored but wasn't entitled to the explanation apparently. Not sure why. After all, I'm a card carrying member of the PGCA!

I'm not sure why Mr Galazan needs to be defended. I don't know him but I'm sure he is a gentleman, who, as other have observed, can defend himself if need be. If "unpleasant" remarks have been made about his company, maybe he should look into it rather than merely ignoring them after others have apologized for their misguided brethren. IMHO and I have no bone to pick with anyone about it.

Now retired from Corporate life (thank God), to keep me off the street and stay out of trouble, I work part time in a local (and well known - since 1947) sporting goods store as a senior fishing advisor. Believe me, we appreciate direct and hopen feedback from our customers and it has helped us to make many changes in the way we deliver certain services to them. Any business that ignores it's customer's experiences puts it's business at risk.

Allen, consult TPS for the full and complete story of the building of the Cliff Green guns - it is a fascinating tale!

ok, thanks Kevin.rgds

It wasn't me - so frankly I could give a good Gawd Dammed about your complaint - or your "grievance".. As for folks who post about the their "right to post" - take it off-line with someone who really cares.

I wouldn't be that person.

"Y'all have a nice day".

John D.

Actually, my comment is directed at almost every business. In my experience, no matter how pleasant and "I want to buy your product' my email is, I very, very seldom get responses to emails I send companies from their website. That's all I was trying to say.

Wow!

I can confirm that John D was not the moderator who deleted my post. I didn't want to post the name of the moderator here so to avoid appearing to attack any one person.Again, gentleman do exercise some discretion.
With regards to the rest of John D.'s post, well, like I said earlier, discretion is the better part of valor so I'll be brief. I pay my dues and have the right to post respectful, honest comments, and share my opinions with others, and if Big Brother doesn't like it or doesn't agree with my views, He can delete my post.

Wow!

I can confirm that John D was not the moderator who deleted my post. I didn't want to post the name of the moderator here so to avoid appearing to attack any one person.Again, gentleman do exercise some discretion.
With regards to the rest of John D.'s post, well, like I said earlier, discretion is the better part of valor so I'll be brief. I pay my dues and have the right to post respectful, honest comments, and share my opinions with others, and if Big Brother doesn't like it or doesn't agree with my views, He can delete my post.

There are only two of us here. That's all there is - that's all there are.

In fact - when YOU - or anyone - calls up the PGCA Website or forum - YOU are in my home office. These servers (all TWELVE OF THEM), these CIRCUITS (ALL THREE OF THEM) and these ROUTERS (all TWO OF THEM) -I pay for - a total monthly charge of well over $1280.00 - just for the connection, not including hardware, upgrades, software - etc..... In fact, I pay for all this crap - and have for years. I spend hundreds of dollars a month - out of my own pocket - to get "dissed" from folks like you?

Yep - the PGCA spends $387.12 for this connection - which is 1/5 my costs, electric, servers, upgrades, software, routers, etc... - Of which, of late - the PGCA consumes over 50%.

All those numbers don't include my time - which is pretty much 24/7 - 365 days a year - bringing new folks on board, or helping someone get registered, or doing Memberships with Mary, or taking personal FLAMES cause someone didn't register their real last/first name...

You want to complain about the site??? That's fine - in about 3-nanoseconds I can make you a Moderator - and then YOU can bitch and moan from my end of the telescope how "I can do it better"...

Want to give it a whirl??

Naww - I thought not....

And oh - like you, who said"...I pay my dues and have the right to post respectful, honest comments, and share my opinions with others, and if Big Brother doesn't like it or doesn't agree with my views, He can delete my post..."

Right back at'cha..... I pay my "dues" each and every day... If in doubt, read this post, once again, for the first time.....

You have a nice evening.

In another thread it was stated that the PGCA has $160,000+ in the bank. If so then they should pay for what they use

Back to the original question of the asking price of these guns (I Know John hates it when threads get highjacked :)) I heard from a good authority the asking price is $500,000.00

That's it. I won't buy it.

John, I guess you want to make it personal.

Your post points out many things that are probably unknown to many of us here. Sounds like the PGCA should provide more reimbursement to you. I'm willing to pay twice the dues so that you are not out pocket. It would still be a bargain to me.

I appreciate all you do for the forum members. I never suggested I could do it better than you. If censorship is in the best interest of the PGCA, then it will do so. I did not "diss" you in any way. I did not make it personal or even mention anyones name! I didn't even know there are only two of you.

If I were a moderator, I certainly would not throw myself in a rage and use foul language to respond to something I have not been accused of. After all, a moderator's role is to curb inappropriate, disrespectful comment and language.

Just because you think my "complaint" was unjustified, others do not. I'm not even sure it was a complaint as much as fair, honest comment.

Your job is one of those thankless tasks that many who enjoys this forum takes for granted. We never even think of it. We should. However, that doesn't give you a license to attack me. Heck, you are the moderator for heavens sake! If the moderator is going to attack members, this thing will turn into a free for all.

It sounds like to me the job is too much for you. You feel unappreciated and that is not good, or true. If you are burnt out, and I can see why you would be, maybe it is time to step down. No one would blame you for it and would honor your service.

To the members: I'm sorry for what this thread has been turned into. It was not my intention to cause trouble or attack any individual.

Well, my thread certainly took a detour. The intent of my question was not to make a stir but to stimulate a bit of discussion regarding these fine guns. Kevin recommends TPS for the story on Mr. Green, and it is fascinating. I have wondered what I would have ordered from Parker had I had the chance in another time and place. Mr Greene did just that. I am also a fan of Tony Galazan. His company is the closest thing we have to the legacy American gun companies that made our favorite doubles.

I second Ed on that. If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it. I doubt anybody just surfing the internet is going to be the buyer of that gun, but it is fun to look. I am a Galazan's customer as well, but of stuff like $40 gun cleaning kits.

Julia and I were admiring some of Tony's guns for sale at Brays Island the other weekend. Very nice but we have school for the kids and the 20 gauge Parker Repro I am about to buy to pay for.

Ray - do you read what you write - before you post it? If you do - do you believe what you wrote?

Nope, me neither...

If you did read what you wrote, before or even after posting it - I'm guessing this comment would be superfluous.

As for "personal attacks" - read you post where you stated this site had "censored you". In fact, you had another user in your accord.? Personal attacks?

That was your post - certainly not mine....

Have a nice evening.

Everybody is entitled to have a bad day. And everybody has a bad day or two. My wife had her 3rd round of chemo last Thursday and today is feeling absolutely horrible and sufferning more pain than the morphine she takes can cover. And I spent the day trying to clear a toilet that our 2 1/2 yr old grandaughter clogged when she flushed a 'batch' down the hatch the size of a cannon ball! Ye gads! Finally we got it cleared. So everyone has a bad day.

This is an excellent forum. We have terrific member contributers and good moderators to ride herd on us all. Strong honest and open views, opinions and we all have a bad day or two. Let's all go to bed, get some rest and get up tomorrow looking forward to a new set of threads to participate in and Jean and I will pray that our grand daughter doesn't leave us any more 'gifts' like the one she left this weekend!

John, you are completely out of order. Actually out of control. I think you are suffering from some type of persecution complex.

First, I meant everything I said. You don't believe it because of your delusion. I especially meant it when I said you should think about stepping down as moderator.

Second, in my first post in this thread I stated that my post in an earlier thread about Galazan's customer service was deleted. This is a indisputable fact. Another member commented that it sounded like censorship and I agreed. Now you probably won't believe a dictionary either, but censorship is defined as suppressing speech that some authority deems objectionable. If deleting my post was not censorship, then what do you call it?

As it turns out, none of this has anything to do with you. You weren't the moderator who deleted my post. You didn't censor anything. But you have thrown yourself in an uncontrollable rant because you are an overworked
volunteer. I'm sorry you work 24/7/365 and PGCA doesn't reimburse you for all of your costs, but you sound ridiculous.

When I read what Allen just posted, I realize how ridiculous it is for me to even engage with you. So you win. Good night.

Mr Masciarella,

It is not my wish to jump into this fray but it needs to be stated that you speak for nobody but yourself and it is the wish of a great many of us here that you take this vendetta off of our public forum and conduct your further discussions on this very personal topic offline either by PM or personal email or telephone call. Mr. Dunkle needs no defense from anyone but until someone has "walked a mile in his shoes" nobody has the right to attack his person.

John - certainly it is your perogative, as you have every right to do what you wish with this website - but I would humbly ask that you lock this thread.

My Best to You, Dean

John or Jeff lock it, this is out of control.....Eric

IMHO Ray has conducted himself as a gentalman in addressing his views. He has not cursed anyone or layed blame to any one particular person. we are all intitled to our point of view. I believe he is owed an apology.

This post is for Allen who wants to know who Cliff Green was. Cliff was an active Maryland waterfowler and NSSA skeet shooter in the thirties and forties. He was not a high average shooter, but he shot on a high average squad and had some good days. It is hard to find individual shoot records for shooters who are not in the winner's circle, but I have a few of Cliff's. In 1947, Cliff went to the Nationals in Syracuse, ran a 231 in All-Bore, a 94 in 20 gauge, an 85 in 28 gauge, and another 85 in the 2 1/2" .410. The same year, he attended the Great Eastern Skeet Championships at Lordship and did some of his best shooting. 97 in 12 gauge, 91 in 20 gauge, and 91 in .410. There were no 28 gauge shells in early 1947, so that event was not shot. He was a member of the great Eastern Shore team of Joe George, Dr. Metcalf, Cliff Green, Julian Coleman, and Ed Calhoun. At 474, they came in three birds ahead of the Dick Shaghnessy squad. My home club squad, the National Capital Rebels, were first at 482. I have shot with three of the five members of the Champion squad and still see one of them a time or two every year. This shoot was 65 years ago.
Nash Buckingham was shooting with a Cliff Green the day he lost Bo Whoop, but I can only assume Cliff Green from Maryland was that person. Cliff and his shooting buddies were serious waterfowlers and guides and I'm sure they knew Nash from the days he was in Washington. Cliff had a few bucks and travelled a bit to hunt and shoot skeet.
I have a letter in my collection from Cliff and his squad written from the 1949 NSSA Nationals in Dallas to one of their squad members who could not attend. The letter was to inform the squad member that one of his cronies had run 100 in one of the events. I can't find the letter to identify the shooters. I hope this is enough information on Cliff Green.