Any of us own CSMC Fox guns or want too?
 

I love the old Fox guns but they all have that deep stock drop unless they have been restocked. (Rabbit Guns) I have bought and sold several of them and looked into having a custom made. Its a lot of work to get one properly up-graded, finding the skilled folks to engrave and restock and they are not easy to deal with, lots of variables and long estimated work times. So that said I have ordered a new CSMC Fox XE two barrel set in 16ga. that will be ready this fall or some time in 2016. Now bitten by the CSMC Fox bug I started looking at all the listings on line. Dang I fell in love all over again! Smitten by a little DE-spl 26" 28Ga. factory choked skeet/ic made in 1997 and engraved by Richard Roy. In was in a listing from Steve Barnett on GI (Still Listed as of today).....I made a offer and now its to arrive on the 8th UPS...(-: I know a couple of us own these guns and wanted to here some feedback good or bad.... The only negative I can find is the price!....but they are half the price of the Remington AHE-28 now being made by CSMC SXS ohio....(-:

I have a Fox by CSM it's an FE 410 and I love the gun. I used it on Quail this past Jan at Morrison Pines. A very nice gun for a lot less money than a VHE Parker.

I have a CSMC XE 20 ga two barrel set that I had built in 1997, Richard Roy engraved.
Mine has been to all over the US, Canada and to Argentina many times. It is my only small bore and my go to upland gun and dove gun. It went back for an adjustment to the front trigger pull and that's it. They are nice guns in my opinion but many Fox collectors don't consider them real Foxes-------yet.

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Simply not true. A lot are, but certainly not "all"!! Most Sterlingworths, which were a "made for stock" gun came with a 2 3/4 to 3-inch drop-at-heel. There are 16 Ansley H. Fox shotguns in my gun room with drop-at-heel of 2 5/8 inch or less.

Hey COB...A new FE small frame Fox will set you back 30K if not more! you could buy a Parker VH for sure. Could you post some pictures of your FE..(-: CL, that's a nice Fox XE, My gun that's on order will be very similar, mine will be caped pistol grip, AAA American walnut, skeleton, DE checkering and a couple other add ins...Good to here positive reviews. The little 28ga should be at my door some time tomorrow, I hope its a keeper......Grouse and doodles will be in big trouble this fall!!! SXS ohio

Researcher...what you say is true, but I have been shooting Parker repro's and they are stocked hi....1 3/8 2 3/8 and some are 2 1/8 at the heal. I can shoot 1 1/2 X 2 1/2 but that still seems low to me. I really needed/wanted a Fox with hi stock dimensions to match my repro's best as possible so it will not mess up my first couple shots from shooting under the bird. I own several brands of shotguns and if they are stocked kinda hi like my repro's I shoot them well first time every time. Thanks all SXS ohio

It would be a good way to own a 410 or 28 gauge Fox, if you had the bucks

mighty nice guns fellas but i m gona have to stick with a stevens 410...charlie

I also have a sears stevens 410 26" that has gunned its share of rabbits! Its a early model, has walnut wood, still looks pretty good and shoots right on. I think I paid 200.00 for it years back...(-: SXS ohio

I ordered an XE 16 ga. in 2001 with 29" barrels, IM and IC, 14 3/4" LP, splinter, skeleton steel but with exposition wood and added muzzle engraving and makers name in gold on both sides of the frame. The engraver was Richard Roy. I then sent it out for a Huey Oak and leather fitted case, hunted pheasants with it for 8 years and then sold it. I know who the owner is and hope someday to get it back, this was one of those guns that I should have never let go of. Wish I could order one again at 2001 prices. I never had any issues with mine.

Rich is right. I wouldn't sell my V Grade Parker for what he paid for his FE.

Charlie, I had a wonderful Stevens-Montgomery Wards .410. However, someone paid me $950 for it at the Baltimore Show. I just couldn't turn that down. No one was more surprised than I was.

A Parker 410 just may be something I live without. A 28 gauge is high on the list and that is expensive enough. I have a Superposed with 410 barrels, courtesy of a member on here, and that is enough

Kenny here are some pics of my Fox. It is a lot of gun for what I paid.

I have 3 Sterlingworths and an A Grade in the cabinet, all original stocks and all of them have less than 2-3/4" of DAH (most are right around 2-5/8").

Here's a couple of pictures of my FE 20 ga, a lot of gun for the money.

Forgot mine was engraved by Jimmy Dimuck (?). On the barrel rib it is inscribed "Made to Order Commissioner Mike Zagata who I was told was part of the RGS board of directors.

Beautiful guns, don't believe I've ever seen yours before Rich. I put the CSMC Foxes into the same category as Parker Repros--not a put down I admire/would love to have either but cant call them original in my mind. Craig, a fantastic day with 5 grouse, where were you hunting? You don't need to give GPS coordinates, just which state. I have been quite fortunate in taking a 5 bird limit several times( UP). This past year I took a friend with his BHE repro w/ 16 ga Kreigoff barrels out and tried hard all day to get him into birds, and at the end of the day, he had 0, and I had 5 with the little VHE 20 . Some days things just fly your way.

Harold the grouse were shot in northern Maine two years ago. My best memory with the Fox was a limit of Sharptailsl shot over my now deceased lab Tess in ND. The grouse were shot over my lab Lucy when she was just one. Gosh I love to hunt with a great gun and dog.

Given the choice between great dog or great gun, I would take the dog. To have both is the icing on the cake. I too, have been blessed with both.

COB and Opening Day, Those Fox guns are spectacular! I really like what they are, Special! They give us pride of ownership of wood and metal all working as one functional shotgun. We might sit while taking a break on a long grouse hunt and just look at the engraving,wood and hi quality workmanship. These new Fox guns are not up-grades or knock offs....they are the real deal made by the new owners of the A.H. Fox gun company. This is only new chapter in a long ongoing book of sportsmen, dogs and gun. I am very happy to have a CSMC Fox in my sporting life, it fits well! thanks all...SXS ohio

I understand the CSMC Foxes have more hand finishing than the Parker Repros. The Repros have essentially no hand finishing, as I understand correctly. The Repros aren't bad guns, though, and I am the proud owner of one

I don't think comparing a reproduction Parker that cost $2500 new and a CSMC Fox that cost $30,000 new for a similar grade is a fair comparison.

Mills, that's not a fair comparison, the Repros were machine made, the Foxes are basically hand fitted or made. The stocking is hand done, the fitting is hand done the engraving is totally hand done. Also if you notice Tony does not promote the Fox guns as much as his others ie Model 21 because they cost much more to build due to all the hand work required.

Which one offers the better value, or isn't that a fair comparison? Ooops, we'd better forget that, as it's probably not a fair question. :duck:

That is what I was trying to say. I understand the CSMC Foxes are made pretty much like they were in the old days

No Greg, you have a valid point, in terms of the best bang for the buck, I would choose the Parker Repro. But to buy a gun that has heart and soul I guess I have to go to the CSMC Fox. I look at these guns the same as I look at my original Parkers.

Greg value is in the eye of the owner. If you bought a DHE repo Parker when they were at the end of the era it was about $2500. Now it might bring $5000 used but not abused. When Tony first brought out the Fox I believe it was a CE grade and it cost $9000 today that gun will cost you close to $20,000 used.
A VHE Parker 410 in excellent condition is $30K+ My Fox Fe bought used but basically unfired was $21K that gun today is $35K plus. So I ask you where's the value???

Uh, Rich, one may or may not agree with your numbers above, but for the sake of discussion let's use them. If the DHE Repro originally sold for $2500 and is now selling for $5000--that's a 100% increase in value. If the CSMC Fox originally sold for $21,000 and now sells for $35,000--that's an increase of only 60% . . . maybe now you can answer your own question. :whistle:

Having said this, I love CSMC Fox guns as well as original Foxes. Kenny's new Fox is a real beauty, but one of my all-time CSMC favorites Steve Barnett still has listed -- the little 28-ga. 28" DE Special -- what a gun!

Incidently, I have an early CSMC Fox brochure that shows the CE priced at $5600. The price crept up through the years and then jumped $5K in price overnite last year to its now $19,500 starting price.

I have owned a BHE Steel shot special in 12 gauge that I bought from Bedlans and two CSMC foxes. The first one was the 16 gauge XE made to my measurements and it was exactly as I ordered it, the second one was an FE 20 gauge 2 barrel set that was just a great buy. I shot everything with the BHE and it did everything it was supposed to but it just felt like any other Japan produced gun to me like a Winchester 23, Browning BSS, Ithaca SKB etc. neat guns but just missing that hand built quality. Could anyone ever order a Parker reproduction to there own length of pull, cast on/off, barrel length, drop at comb and heel and select the very piece of wood for the stock? I just don't think that they are even comparable but thats just my opinion and wanted to share it.

And you certainly can't compare the $2,500 of thirty years ago with an equal dollar value of today and then match it against $30K.

Never the less, The CSMC Fox guns are far superior, in finish only, than the Parker Reproductions. As far as manufacturing and grade of steels used, they are probably about equal... but the Parker Repro has a great deal more machine processes required to manufacture it.

Durability and dependability goes to the CSMC Fox of course.

Let's not forget either, the niche market name of CSMC Fox and the specialized market they advertise and sell to. Mr. Skeuese was trying to make the Parker (reproduction) affordable to the average shooter/hunter. I don't think Tony uses the same marketing model.

Dean you are absolutely right and that was what I was trying to say in m last post, for the dollar today, a $4500 Repro is just about the best side by side you can buy today, period. The CSMC Fox is an entirely different animal.

I'd say, just for numbers sake, that CSMC fetch $30K per gun, and suppose the profit is $5K range per gun, his volume can be a heck of a lot lower and still turn the same profit as selling higher volumes of guns for $4500 and making $500/ea. Definitely a different niche, and not a bad business plan. :)

As has been said many times before, the Parker Reproduction by Winchester is a
very much under-appreciated and under-valued gun in today's market. And if the
Repro project had not been done before and was undertaken today they would be
FAR more expensive to manufacture and would retail a lot closer to the prices
commanded by CSMC for their Foxes. And, mark my words - there would be a lot
fewer Repros made than the roughly 10,000 that were.

I believe CSMC will build you a 28 gauge Parker, and they are getting how much?

Excellent point Phil.

I had one of his SxS sporting clays guns. Was a great gun, zero issues, regret selling it.:(

Greg I will agree with you that DE that Steve has is wonderful and I tried to trade into it but it's a consignment gun and Steve couldn't do it. It's just as well as I really don't need a third 28 but that wood is hard to resist.

If Kenny posted pics of his new gun I missed them.

I certainly don't begrudge Tony's price on the Fox, since he built me an astounding Inverness for a pittance and built a great number of RBLs for similar prices. You decide what your budget is and you make your decision. Anyone who thinks Tony makes too much profit on a Fox CE .410 can buy a .410 RBL for less than half the price. Tony addresses all price points and tries to meet all tastes.

I received the little Fox 28ga DE-spl from Steve Barnet
 

Her are some pictures that I just took. If you want to see better pictures it is still listed on Guns International, look under heading: Connecticut Shotgun CSMC , then 1/3 of the way down on the first page, Steve has some really good pictures.
This gun was made 1997 Engraved by Richard Roy and has exhibition Turkish walnut with FE checkering and has not been fooled with, shows some very light use and is still 99%...(-: Steve listed chokes as CYL/IC, it left the factory Skeet/IC and it measures .004/.007 chokes are also correct. I plan to take it out in the morning to shoot sporting clays. It does fire and eject properly as I shot it the day it came!, all is well. This is a wonderful example of the Fox guns built by CSMC. SXS ohio