Short 10 and Red Dot.
 

Today I made an exception to my rule: I do not shoot untested loads. I have been following the postings from those that have tried and are using the 19.0 grains of Red Dot with 1&1/8 oz. of shot. I have been using 1&1/8 oz. with 4&1/4 dram and 1&1/4 oz. 4 dram black powder loads and the factory RST 1&1/8 oz. Lite load using 7&1/2 shot. I really do like using a 10 ga. 2&7/8 inch 1884 Hammered W.W. Greener marked "The Trap Gun" with the London address. Gun and barrels are in excellent condition and I can shoot it well. To get more use from it I tried several loads using this data. I put them up with once fired RST Cheddite hulls and on Sporting Clays I could not tell any difference in perceived recoil, report or results breaking clays between them and the factory RST loads. I'll contact Tom and see about sending some for testing. I do believe this load is safe in the heavy barreled 10 ga. and I will give them a through try in the near future. This load seems to do everything well on clay targets and with larger shot would work well in the field. From the Alliant Reloader's Guide, it gives 83 to 9300 psi when using 19.0 grains of Red Dot and 12 ga. Cheddite and Fiocchi non tapered hulls and Cheddite and Fiocchi primers. I would expect a drop in pressure by running this load in a 10 ga. I would love to see this load drop into around 78 to 8400 psi.

I too do not shoot untested loads , I have been thinking about trying that load also but have been leery . If you do send it in for testing please share the results . I have been shooting a tested 1 1/8 oz 700x load and it shoots nicely .

Your 19 grains of RD and 1 1/8 ounces of lead shot should be very safe and have enough pressure to avoid off sounding loads. A little more shot would bring the pressure up to where the sound would be great.

i have shot lots of 19 grains of red dot and 1 1/8 ounce of shot in my differant 10 ga with no side effects...as bill stated even 1 1/4 ounce sounds good....this is possibley the best light 10 ga hunting load to ever been used...you could shoot these loads at skeet all day with no trouble atall....charlie

If 19grs of powder is safe in a 12ga, you would only have less pressure in a 10ga. The chambers are a bigger diameter and that gives more surface area for the powder to push against - less pressure. Any 12ga load in the 8 to 9000psi range would be safe in a 10ga.

Thank you for the further information. Using a MEC Sizemaster with the Short hull reloading kit, the only change I have made is to replace the pre-crimp factory station with a Ballistic Products Super crimper 6 point. Most of the hulls I'll be using will be new trimmed factory hulls: Federal, Remington and Cheddite. I have not had to make any adjustments from the factory setting and shells load and crimp very well. I loaded up more Cheddite hulls with the 19.0 grain Red Dot and 1&1/8 oz. and a few using the trimmed Federal hull (replacing the Federal primer with a Winchester to lower pressure). The shot settled a little deeper in the Federal hulls and I believe they have a bit more internal volume than the RST/Cheddite hulls.. I have not skived the hulls after trimming and the crimps are factory perfect. With 19.0 grains of Red Dot, a Remington SP10 wad, 1/2 inch fiber cushion filler wad and 1&1/8 oz. shot and a 6 point fold crimp the shells look very good. I'll give the Remington hulls a try next time. I will be shooting them side by side with the RST load and if they work as well I think I'll be set for any short 10 shooting I may want to do. I plan on contacting Tom this week to see about getting the loads tested.

I made an exception yesterday and you guys are right the 19gr RD load is great load .

I decide to take my NID Grd 3 Super 10 dove hunting. Loaded some up in new Rem hulls with reclaimed shot to help get some spread out of the full and fuller chokes .

Let em tell you this load will knock em out of the sky , I made some honest 50 yard shots and manage get 14 Birds 1 short of a limit , lots of fun.

I have been shooting 19gr of Red Dot with 1 1/8 ounce of lead in a Federal hull for quite awhile. It's a great crow swatting load in the short ten with #6 and a great clays load with 7.5 and 8.

Don't forget 19gr of Alliant Promo will work the same as Red Dot. You may need to use a different bushing with it but the 8lb jug of Promo I have loads identical to Red Dot i.e. same bushing for the same weight of powder.

Yes , promo is what I am using .

With the 19gr red dot load I just change shot size and keep loading. Use it for everything.

The super crimper is not necessary - on my cut shells I just use the standard Mec pre crimp toll and shells come out great.

Same with me no change to the standard Mec Crimp set up. Even fresh trimmed hulls crimp fine with Mec's Plastic Pre Crimp. I do Skive the hulls, don't have to but the wad slides in easier if Skived. It's a quick job Balistic Products Hull Skiving tool chucked up in the lathe. Hold the hull on the spinning tool with a little twist of the fingers for a second or so all it takes.

By the way bought a big box of once fired Federal 10 G hulls on line. my opinion It's a lot better Hull than Cheddites.

William

I've been finding red dot a little difficult to come across lately. If anyone else does, they might try 21 gr. of 700X and 1 1/8 oz. of shot. This is another untested load, but I've been using it for years, and never had a problem with it in any of my 10's. Just an FYI, The IMR handloaders guide from 1996 lists 22.5 grains of 700X...SP10 wad...1 3/8 oz. shot...at 1190 fps. and 9700 psi., with a 2 7/8 inch case length.

i seen a box of winchester shells in 10 ga that were loaded with 1 3/8 ounce of lead shot the other day my first time to notice a older loading in this weight of shot shell...i can find reddot powder better in my area than i can the 700 powder...charlie

Or Promo, the same as RD. Austin, I find it amazing that in 1996 IMR would be listing loads for the 2 7/8" 10ga. I would have thought that by 1996 the loads would just be for the 3 1/2" 10ga. I've used 700X but for targets - not sure but it was a 1 1/8 oz 12ga load they list. It's nice to see someone dig out a older reloading manual and find loads for the 2 7/8 10ga. Thanks.

If I ever get around to it I'm going to shoot some of my 10 guage 2 7/8 Peters paper shells. Once I have the empties I'll work up a 1 1/4 oz load of #4 shot with 700 X and roll crimp it. Should be good for woodcock.

i have an old load from dupont with 21 grs 700-x and 1 1/4 oz at 1175 fps. i shoot it at winter crows and it shoots good

Have you tried that load in paper cases with wadding, or in plastic with SP 10 wads and a filler in the shot cup?

Austin, I think your 1 1/4oz of #4's for woodcock is a little light - maybe a 1 3/8oz of BB's would be better.

if the bow wave doesn't knock them out of the air -

the jetwash will

You trying to vaporize those little ruddy fellows!!!!! I'd stoke those shells with #9 or #10 shot. That would be the ticket out of the 10g for Woodcock!!

How about this....I'll use 1 1/4 oz of BB's, and 1/8 oz. of # 9 shot as a buffer. Actually, I just might try this. I do have some BB's and also # 9 shot. Remember the duplex loads that, I believe, Remington made awhile back......Hmmmm, I wonder what the pattern would look like.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Buffered by #9s!!!! Outstanding!!

I shot the clays course this morning with both Cheddite hulls and Federal hulls loaded with 19 grains of Red Dot, SP10 wad with a 1/2 inch 16 ga. fiber insert, 1&1/8 oz shot finished with a 6 fold crimp. Excellent results! I will be using these loads as standard for clays in my Greener. I can save the SR 7625 for my low pressure 12 qa. and 16 ga. loads. I'll go to larger size shot for field use. Thank's to whoever dreamed this load up!! The Greener will get much more use now that I can load for it rather than purchase more expensive factory loads.

That load works great. You mentioned in a previous post about sending it out for testing, did you ever do that?

I have not done that yet. I've read in other postings that Tom shuts down in the late fall/winter and resumes testing service in spring. I will contact him and send the load off for testing using Cheddite, Federal and Remington hulls. I am interested in data using all 3 hulls. Nice thing about this load is I can use the hulls several times and then get one last hurrah with black powder before tossing them in the barrel. Ran a score of 40 today. 1 bad gun mount, 4 clays shot over and 5 just plain misses. ( I do tend to shoot a different gun almost every time out. They all want their turn!)

You don't need Armbrust to attest to the safety of that load, as long as it sounds loud enough. However, the difference in the three hulls may be an interesting test. My guess as to pressure is about 7000 psi max.

Thank's Bill. If they come in 7000 to 7500 psi I'll be real happy. I do want to know psi with these 3 hulls as they are the most common hulls available to reloaders. The Red Dot load is very clean shooting. Just finished clean up after 100+ shots and like what I see. Since it was improved a number of years ago it is very clean. I used the powder years ago for trap and it was a little sooty, not anymore. I do not think it will prove to be punky in cold weather like SR 7625.

Promo is the same as Red Dot but cheaper. It may be a bit dirtier, but then I've never thought of any nitro as dirty after shooting BP for 50 years. You'd still use 19grs, but weigh it to make sure you have 19grs with the same bushing. In 8# containers, Promo is about $20 cheaper than Red Dot.

The residual crud left by powders such as Red Dot, Promo, etc. can be reduced somewhat by using a magnum type primer. I prefer Federal but CCI 209M is also good. With such primers, the charge may have to be cut by .5 grs or so. Depending upon how close you are to "maximum."

Residual crud- holy cow, some of you guys must work in a hospital. :)All I've ever seem is a little unburnt powder from the last shot. You want crud, shoot a hundred or more black powder shells a day. Now you got crud, and lots of it.:banghead:

John, I am using guns around 130 years old and have stayed away from the pressure increase when using magnum primers. I've just stayed with low pressure powders that burn well in colder weather. The fouling left by smokless powders is really not a problem but I did take notice of the cleaner aspect of the re-formulated Red Dot powder. I like it! Paul, have you tried out GOEX Old Eysnford powder. I shot a charity event a few weeks ago using OE 2 fg. Paper hulls with hard nitro cards and felt wads, 1 oz. finished with a roll crimp and could have very easily shot the 50 round course with very minimal fouling. At the last station the bores showed very light fouling and were still a bit bright. I finished up with 2 shots from each barrel using RST light smokless loads to burn them out for easy cleaning once home. Now I'll forget about the smokless and just shoot the whole course with the OE 2 fg. Old Eynsford is a very good black powder.

No I've never tried it and probably won't because I already have so much GOEX, Clean Shot, and Pyrodex. But is nice to know something burns a bit cleaner. The GEOX doesn't take all that much time to clean - about 10 to 15 minutes and I'm done.