Serial number 4297
 

I won this on GB Friday night. Serial number 4297. It was a roll of the dice. I sent the guy a couple of messages about the bores and if it was matching numbers and he said the bores are good and the numbers match so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he was telling the truth. It was also advertised as a 12ga but the books show 10ga. It has the same checkering, engraving and stub twist as the Grade 1 lifter pictured in the grade ID section. Hopefully it will be a shooter or it will be a $440.00 wallhanger.
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oop's I meant to put this in the hammer gun section.

Looks well used, but I don't see any glaring problems.

Looks good. Hope it works out for you

But then. Getting a 10 never disappoints me

"Well used" that is the way I like them and the only way I can afford them.:)

I'm hoping it's a 10 because that is a plus in my book too.

I look at a well used shotgun as a thing of beauty and I think of all the game it may have taken to make it look that way.

I'll get you set.. ;)

John D.

Yeah, I have a few well used Parkers myself. They are more affordable than the 90% ones and I buy them to use anyway

nice gun i think you bought it at a fair pirice i have several in this condtion...charlie

Congrats! As long as the barrels are safe I think you have a really nice early lifter. Barrels look to be 32"?

If that is a 12ga it has pretty heavy barrels and would be a bargain.

The listing showed it to be a 12ga with 30" barrels. I guess I will find out for sure next week. I will most likely order a letter for it once I have it in hand.

You know the more I look at it the more they look like 32" barrels.

Presuming the LOP is 14" I took a steel machinist's rule and laid it to the edge of the butt plate and at the front trigger it measured just a hair more than 2 5/16". Then I measured the barrel using this 2 5/16" scale and got a rough 28" plus about 2" barrel length. So to me it looks closer to 30" if my very rough calc'lations mean anything.






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I hope Rob will give us a report when he gets this new prize in. Inquiring minds want to know.

. . . And just in time for turkey season too!!!

Thanks, I'm hoping for a 30" surprise 10ga.

This set of Tom's have been eating my corn all season.
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I hope you get to teach them a lesson this season!

I think I got a Parker Light 10. The thing only weighs 7.3Lbs, the barrels without the forearm weighs 3.4Lbs.
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The barrel lug has a S stamped on it in three different places.
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Here are a few more pictures. I really like the way this old shotgun looks and feels. I have sent off for it's letter.
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That's an interesting old lifter and fairly close in serial number to mine, #4084. My gun is a $105 dollar grade (10ga) baring the same patent date on the floor plate. Mine also has the same Parker Bros" lettering and font on the side plate. I also have the S stamped on the barrel lug. I'd be interested in the significance of that if anyone knows.

I have searched the threads and I believe the "S" stamp is a stamp used by a Inspector named John Stokes.

Did you verify it is a 10 gauge? Assuming the barrels are good you got a great deal.

Hey Mike, It is for sure a 10 gauge. I'm guessing the barrels have been cleaned up a bit, they almost look to good.

Rob, that is a nice lifter and I think you got a good deal on it. That sure is a light 10 gauge and should be alot of fun. I have a 12 gauge lifter# 3492 that has very light 30" barrels on it as well. The chamber walls are thinner compared to the other Parkers I have and look like yours. I haven't weighed just the barrels, but my gun weighs 7lbs. 10 oz. Yours is even lighter. I hope you enjoy it, I have shot both black powder and some ultra low pressure RST shells out of mine.

Thanks Jay, I really like these lifters. I wish I could find a well used $100.00 grade lifter next in 10 or 12ga that was affordable. Lol

Thank you Mr. Bishop.
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I don't usually post an image of the stock book entry for someone's gun but I want to make an exception for this gun. Rob's gun is the top entry and can you make out if it's a 2 or a 0? I've shown entries below his gun for comparison purposes. I did make a mistake on the LOP and weight of the gun, the letter should say LOP 14 1/4" and 7 3/4 pounds which would be light for a 10ga. gun. Also look at the pellet count of a 12ga. gun vs. a 10ga. gun. Not much difference. Many times a 12ga. gun will have a lower pellet count vs. a 10ga. gun. I hope everyone now knows why I hate doing letters on real early Parkers.

Rob, either measure the chamber size or see if a 10ga. or 12ga. shell fits properly in the chamber.

I'll send you a new letter.

Mr. Bishop, Thanks for all your hard work. It is for sure a 10 gauge or someone turned it into one. A Rst 12 gauge shell falls past the extractor and a 10 gauge fits perfect.

Thanks again,
Robert Marshall

By the looks of the entry blown up and clarified, it is definitely a 10 and not 12.

Thanks Rob for the info regarding the "S" stamp on our guns.

I am confused however on how our 2 guns could be considered the same Dollar Grade. ($100-$105).

I realize there was much variation in these less defined grade early guns. But can anyone clarify or provide explanation in the differences of these 2 guns?

There could be several reasons for differences in the sell price of guns of the same grade within a specific period where there was a 'standard' price. This was a period we refer to as the "dollar grade" or "dollar quality." The reasons could be such things as longer barrels or some other feature not considered by Parker Bros. to be standard. Another reason that is sometimes seen is a discounted price, for one reason or another. Often there will be no obvious reason for a small difference in sell price.






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Why the difference in the number of pins - 4 vs. 3?

Grade 3 and higher had different and better lock mechanisms, hence the 4 pins in grade 3 and higher.





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And the barrel bolsters.... I thought general grade differentiation started there along with the number of pins? The pin count might be related to the gun being either front action or rear action locks?? I recall reading about that but can't remember where now. But basically the rear action lock required more wood to be removed from the inner stock thus making the stock wrist somewhat weaker. I think these are the 3 pin guns. The 4 pin guns have the front action lock that required more metal be milled out to provide the needed spacing, thus providing the stock to be stronger. Is that correct?
It seemed the mid-1870's was a very transitional time in design with the addition of Charles King to the design team. I believe he began implementing changes and new patents very soon during this time. I think King ended up with like 14 or 15 patents, maybe more through the years of his tenure with Parker? (I really need to get my hands on the TPS, cause I'm sure most of my Q's have answers in those 2 volumes) Anyway... Also as Dean mentioned there were several price changes in the gun grades during this periods as well. Not to diminish the quality of Rob's gun at all, but the historical pictures of Grade 2 guns of that era bare much more resemblance to his gun than the Grade 3's.
Again, I'm in no way referring to down grade anyone's gun as any Parker is truely a unique and special gun of fine workmanship and historical significance. I'm only trying to better understand the history of these remarkable guns, particularly the early grade lifters of the 1870's.
I and others might benefit from any clarification that those of you with far more knowledge than I of this era could provide. Thank you :bowdown:

As I understand it, Double Gun Journal has sold out of the "blemished" volumes of "The Parker Story." However, you may find some on eBay or ABE. If you would like the leather-bound limited edition I think Robin Lewis will be willing to part with his.





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Mr. Smith, that is a really nice Parker. I hope to own one some day that nice. The engraving looks like fireworks exploding. I really like the Dog guns and the engraving that tells a story, but most of those guns are out of my reach.

I learn something new about these old Parkers just about every day on this site by searching the old threads. I really need to invest in The Parker Story too.

I wonder what is the lightest weight 10ga Parker ever built?

Let me try and explain a few things about how I determined both Rob's and Jeffery's Dollar Grade. Remember, there are no Order Books for these guns, order books started in 1877.

Rob's gun was made in 1874. The stock book shows the barrel steel as Twist. Looking at the 1874 Price list, a 10ga. gun with Twist steel barrels sold for $55,65, or 80 dollars. With Stub Twist steel, I'd say his was either a $55 or $65 Dollar Grade gun.

Jeffery's gun was also made in 1874 but his barrel steel was Damascus. Looking at the 1874 price list shows 4 different offerings in 10ga. with Damascus steel barrels. They could be 105, 150, 200, or 250 Dollar Grades. I stated in Jefffery's letter that the grade could not be determined. I believe it's the $105 Dollar Grade but I can't put it in the letter if I'm not sure. I'm not sure where Jeff came up with $100 - $105 grades. And remember, at this point in time, Parker didn't use terms like D grade or grade 3. That started about 1882.

Also, do not make assumptions on stampings such as the "S" found on both guns. You can think it is for Stokes but you don't know for sure. The stock books list the contractor who signed off on each phase of the gun and the name Stokes is not found on either gun entry. The same holds true for all the other stampings we see on Parker shotguns.