red dot 10 ga loads
 

last night i loaded up a27 federal hulls that i had shortened to 2 7/8 inch.i used pete lesters posted here on the forum load of 19 grains of red dot and 1 1/8 ounce of no. 9 lead shot..this is quite possibly the best lite 10 ga load to ever come our way...i m gona use a remington 1894 10 ga gun and these loads on doves opening day..i hope they improve my score on birds my average is usally 5 birds to a box of shells...charlie

That's for certain a great load. I use it with both Federal and Cheddite hulls in both of my short 10's. 1&1/8 oz of 7.5 breaks some targets pretty far out there. Easy on the guns and the shooter and performs way better than one think's it should. I'd like to thank the forum members for posting it and getting me to give it a try. It makes my light short 10's into heavy 12's and I love getting them out on the clays course.

Has anyone had this load tested for pressure and velocity?

I don't see RD for the 16ga but Green Dot is used in both 12 and 16ga. The same powder, primer, and shot has a 2000psi decrease going from 16 to 12. Some RD loads are up around 10,500psi in the 1 1/8oz 12ga load. That said, we know the pressure will be less with the same load in the 10 - maybe around 8500psi.

I too would like to know the results if anyone has had it tested, it's great load and I am completely comfortable shooting it in my composite barrel 10's. A similar load in twelve gauge using paper based plastic hulls similar to the Federal 10ga hull produced 9000 psi with 19gr RD and 1 1/8. They used the Fed209A primer in that load. Use a milder primer like the Win 209 and shoot it through a 10 gauge bore and I'll bet the pressure is around 8000. Anyone put the 19gr Red Dot Short Ten load through a chronograph?

https://www.federalpremium.com/downl...oadingData.pdf

just shot the reddot load of 19 grains and 1 1/8 ounce of no 9 shot at a dr pepper can at 50 paces got and average of 8 hits each shot..this will indeed be a fine load for doves in a 10 ga i shot the loads in a 1894 remy 10 ga...good loud reports and not much recoil now if i can just hit....i too would like to know the pressures of this load...i know it patterns great....charlie

Now I know how I'm going to utilize the vintage 3# round metal "keg" of Green Dot that I inherited a few years ago.

Someone gave me about a pound of Red Dot yesterday . It was in one of the OLD Hercules square short fat tin cans . They wanted to keep the container . So I put it in a washed out dry plastic mayonnaise container and brought it home . Loaded exactly two rounds of 20.2 grains with 1 1/4 ounces of shot SP-10 wad with a 16 gauge card filler in the shot cup and a 10 gauge over shot card just to keep the crimp flat . Took them out and fired them in my EH #3 frame and they sound okay with no surprises .

While I have not tried Red Dot, Clay Dot is very similar. Thus I offer this Tom Armbrust tested 10-bore load for comparison:

I use the RST (Federal) 2 7/8” hull, 21.1 grs. Of Alliant Clay Dot, Winchester 209 primer, a BP VP 100 one-piece plastic wad, one 16-bore .135 nitro card and one 3/8” fibre wad for cup fill, plus 1 1/8 oz. of No. 8 shot. According to Tom Armbrust of Ballistic Research, this load generates an average 7,640 psi. and 1,217 fps. velocity. That surpasses the RST Lite cartridge by only 67 fps.

I wish I'd never seen this thread LOL's !

Before reading this I'd already decided I wanted to get two eight pounders of Green Dot before the elections . Now I want two eight pounders of Red Dot as well .

I'm loading 20grs of GD with 1 1/16oz of shot - nice load. You won't be sorry with the GD.

I just ran some 1-1/8 oz. Red Dot 10 ga. loads thru the chronograph last week. For what it is worth, these were in Remington SP cases cut to 2-7/8 with a 6 pt crimp. Wad was Remington 10 ga with 16 ga. filler wads. 23.7 grains clocked 1251 fps and 22.2 ran 1198fps. The 22.2 load is not a bad shooting load. I have no idea what pressures were generated but they seem pretty mild.
C.G.B.

Carl thanks , that is good info . I like the 22 gr load . I talked to Tom Arburst the other day and he tested 23 grs RedDot in a Fed hull and win primer at 1220 fps and said the pressure was in spec. He said the 19gr load would likely be under 1100 fps .

sounds like some good hunting loads to me thanks fellows for the reports...a fellow cannot go wrong with reddot or greendot in the short ten...charlie

Red dot seems to work well enough with 1-1/8 oz of shot but ( in my hands) it just doesn't meter well. I can get as much as +-.5 gr. variation in powder weight in any give string. This seems to be a common problem with any of the big flake powders like Blue dot, Herco, Steel, etc. Of late I have been playing with Alliant e3. It meters very well and produces very consistent velocities with 1-1/8 in 2-7/8 cases. I have settled on a load that is running 1150 fps with very little shot-shot velocity variation. No pressure data but it seems to be very well behaved. As I learn more I will post some more info.
C.G.B.

I use to load a lot of RD and Promo which is the same thing and never had a problem. Over on the shotgunworld.com reloading forum .3grs + - seems acceptable. 800X is known to be one of the hardest powders to reload because of it's size and pistol shooting friends tried 700X and didn't like it because they load at such a small volume it wouldn't meter well. To each their own, but Promo is one of my favorite powders.

With my MEC Sizemaster I get 18.4 to 18.8 grains of Red Dot using the bushing specified for 19 .0 grains. This variation is likely due to how the press is cycled between throws. It makes no difference as to how the load functions and the clay targets are crushed. Both of my "short ten's" really like this load. If the velocity is down around 1100 fps, pressure is probably pretty light and I have not noticed that my lead has changed from shooting the same presentations with my 12 ga. at 1200 fps. The load just seems to work. I believe I'd try the 22.0 grain loading or the 20.0 grain with Green Dot loading for a hunting load if I wanted a substitute for the 4 to 4.25 dram black powder load.

I am a new to this forum and to loading 2 7/8" 10 gauge. I have been reading for days and now am ready to annoy the veterans. I have settled on the 19.0 grain Red Dot 1 1/8 oz loads as the base form my first ventures. I have cut 10ga 3.5" factory primed cheddite hulls to 2 7/8" hulls, the Remington SP-10 Wad and intend to use a fold crimp done on a sizemaster with the short shell adapter.

What should the proper length for a folded shell 2 7/8" hull be (more or less)? Mine are measuring 2.47" using a caliper from the base to the top edge of the crimp. Call it 2 1/2. Does this sound about right?

What are most using as a "wad filler" for the shot cup? Based on my reading, I have ordered in the circle-fly 16 gauge 1/2" fiber wads and I have a supply of 1/8" 16 gauge .125 nitro cards. Do I just "mix and match" till I get the crimp I want? Is there a standard approach (wad stack) to get me close?

Sorry to seem so needy. I can offer the results of a small side trip based on my reading. I am having very positive results with the same 19gr of Red Dot and 12 #1 buck shot stacked 4x3 into a SP-10 wad using a 12 gauge 1/4" cork wad placed into the bottom of the shot cup followed by the 4x3 stack, an overshot card and then a 6pt fold crimp. These are measuring 2.47" to the top edge of the fold.

The 12 ball load is slightly under the 1 1/8 ounce load (577.5 gr), but put all 12 balls inside a 9" circle at 25 yards though an I/C choke. Recoil was mild. I only loaded 3 so I will make more and see if it does anything at 50 yards.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

rch

Thanks for the BS load data. Sounds like you have a nice load. It doesn't matter how or what you mix with the filler wads, just get the height that works for you. Once I find a height measured from the top of the load to the top of a uncrimped shell I write it down. For me it's around .400 and can be critical depending what shell I'm using. Some will buckle in the cushion area of the plastic wad easier than others. Too much and the crimp will dish too much. I've never worried about total length after crimping - it really doesn't matter. I also have cut shells that at one time were used in a Parker lifter that had 2 5/8" stepped chambers. They're a bit shorter but still get used in my 2 7/8" guns.

Of late I have been using Schoeller PT1044 wad plus 3 16ga. .125 card wads with my 1-1/8 oz loads in Remington SP10 cases cut to 2-7/8. These cases do seem prone to buckling if not supported during crimping. Once they buckle they will continue to do so.
C.G.B.

If you are using a MEC reloader and your hulls are buckling you need to make an adjustment to the cam. I was loading Federal hulls for a long time without issue and when I got some Remington hulls they buckled upon applying the final crimp. Once I adjusted the cam the Remington hulls loaded perfectly.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/bp...ust/mecadj.htm

Interesting about the cam, I will have to play with it. Way back I used to load a lot of 3.5" cases, Federal and Remington, and had the press dialed in. When I started playing with the shorter cases I did not readjust it. I did find that adding a support collar around the head while crimping did alleviate the problem.
C.G.B.

This morning I am loading some Remington Hulls cut to 2 7/8 inches with a Winchester 209 primer, 34.3-5 grains of SR 4756, Remington SP10 wads using 1 Balistic Products .070 16 ga. card and 1 Circle Fly 1/8" 16 ga. card in the bottom of the cup. 1 1/4 oz. 7.5 shot for those longer shots on the clays course. The card stack height is just perfect for factory like crimps on my MEC Size Master press. Load # 8 Sherman Bell load using just the .070 card gave a dished crimp so I added the 1/8 card and am pleased with the results of the finished shell. This load works really well in my W.W. Greener and George T. Abbey Hammer guns. With 6's and 5's a very good field load. I'm going to see how this load works with the Federal Hull. Cheddite and Federal Hulls and 19.0 grains of Red Dot has become my go to clays load but it is nice to have a bit heavier payload for some applications. Can't tell you just how much fun these guns are with loads in the proper pressure range.

Yesterday I finished loading a small batch of Federal hulls. Using the same wad and filler combination as above eliminates occasionally hull buckling at the crimp. Firm support of the stack gives factory like crimps with Federal hulls as well.

I thought I had posted this before but couldn't find it so here goes
When adjusting the crimp station, the CAM is the LAST thing you adjust. Adjust the crimp starter first, then adjust the seating stem to get the proper depth. When you are getting a correct fold of the crimp petals, and the correct depth set, THEN adjust the cam to eliminate the flare. NOTE The cam adjustment should be set at least 2/3 of the way up, while the other adjustments are being made. Then, and only then, lower the cam enough to eliminate the flare.



The roller will not touch the cam (or at least not have any force put on it by the cam) at the very bottom of the stroke. BUT, more cam means the cam will touch the roller and apply force to it longer (further down) in the stroke. The cam has a fairly sharp shoulder or lobe on it. When you start down with the press the roller rolls on the cam (because this part of the cam is circular) and the outer (plastic) part of the die is pushed down by the cam and roller. Until you get around 1/2-3/4 of the way down, everything I have said so far remains true regardless of where the cam is set. However, the cam is rotating as you come down. Eventually the cam rotates to the point when the roller goes past the shoulder on the cam. Past this point the cam is no longer circular. As you come on down the cam puts less and less pressure on the roller. But, the center punch will come on down because it is fastened solidly to the top of the press. If the roller gets past the shoulder of the cam too early in the stroke you will end up with the punch coming on down on the center of the crimp and this tending to squeeze the top of the shell outward. But the plastic part of the die is not coming on down, which means it cannot prevent the top of the shell from flaring outward. It takes a lot of fine tuning to get this just right. There is a reason why Mec adds the final taper die to the Grabber and 9000. Having a separate die that is used strictly to get some taper makes things a lot simpler.


Most people do NOT have straight in their minds what the CAM actually does. There are all kinds of convoluted beliefs as to what it actually does.

Adding more cam, (Lowering it at the adjustment slot), causes the crimp die to lower slightly at the near bottom of the stroke. The die has a taper at the top of the die, that when pushed lower, will in fact push the flare at the end of the hull inward, closing the hole in the center tighter, and usually will eliminate the flare and in fact may leave the end of the hull slightly rounded.

SO, in most cases, a properly adjusted CAM will reduce or eliminate the flare on the end of the hull, and probably leave it slightly rounded.
The above was actually two different post on another reloading web site. Hope it helps.

Paul, great info.

thanks rch