Strength of Guns
 

Many times I have read on the forum not to use modern shot shells in older Parker guns. Usually it is stated the wood is older or oil soaked and the metal may not be up to the strength of more modern firearms. Obviously using a 2 ¾ or 3 inch 12 gauge magnum shell in a gun with Damascus barrels produced in 1880 is a definite No No. So too, would be using a 3 ½ inch Federal 10 gauge in a Damascus barreled 2 7/8 inch chambered gun. But I am thinking that after the 1920’s and 30’s there were magnum shells being produced in 12 gauge and I can’t but think that the Parker Company would have kept abreast of those developments to allow the stronger shells to be fired in their guns.
I am not suggesting anyone shoot shells in their gun that they don’t want to shoot by any means. My one and only Parker so far is a 12 gauge GH made in 1928. The only shells I have shot through it so far and probably ever will are 1 or 1 1/8th ounce loads. Possibly if I ever get the chance to use it on wild pheasants or turkey I may opt for 1 1/4 ounce loads. However they would be few and far between. I guess my question is has anyone ever really had problems of wood cracking or other stock problems right after using more powerful shells or is the thought to simply err on the side of caution to keep the guns as nice as possible due to their age?
Please accept this as a simple question of curiosity and possibly to generate some discussion. Believe me I am not on either side of this question as I normally hunt upland game using a 20 gauge and 7/8th ounce loads and do well.

Dennis

Dennis,

Oil soaked wood is usually obvious and easily identified by being black. It is spongy and removing the oil from it will restore the fiber. You almost always have to pull the wood off the gun to determine this as some stocks are not that oil soaked from outside appearance but are from the inside from 100 years of oil run through the action and into the wood from being stored butt down as most people store them.

But what you will find more times than you would believe is that the wood is cracked inside without any visible signs outside. So to be safe, have the wood removed and inspected, and once the oil is removed and any cracks repaired I shoot anything I want in the fluid steel barrels if I need it, but most of the time shoot light reloaded stuff so nothing will break. At targets it is a 24 gram load (about 7/8 oz) in 12 ga that only have 3500 psi or 1 ounce at 6500 psi. But at turkeys and geese it's 1.25 oz in 12 and 1.5 oz in 10 and 1 oz in 16 and 7/8 oz in 20 at doves, but low pressure.

Such warnings are meant to cause new owners to err on the side of caution. Many owners of early Parker guns in good condition use them as they would use modern guns. However, after fifty years of shooting early Parker guns, I still prefer to err on the side of caution. Repairs are expensive and hard to access. I shoot light loads in all of my early Parkers.

i have shot sveral hundred loads in the parker 8 ga lifter i have...most all the loads on the medium to heavy side... smokless loads...the stock is oil soaked pretty good and i need to do something about that...but the old gun has never shone any sign of a crack in the stock or damage to the old stub twist steel barrels she wears...she fired a 2 1/2 ounce turkey load yesterday at a dummy turkey....im not bragging but these old guns are tougher than we think they are...most all of youwould not take a secound look at my old gun buti think as much of that old wore out 8 as i would of a a 1 parker if i had one...shes one tough old gal..... charlie

Charlie I have always shot 3-1/2" bismuth in my Parker PH with 32" steel barrels, course this is my duck gun, and geese!

Just my experience on oil soaked stocks. I found that removing oil by soaking in acetone did nothing, IMO, to strengthen the stocks. In fact, the oil and acetone removal of that oil, together robbed the wood of natural resins that bind the fibers of the wood together. I found that one stock was particularly affected by the oil and removal process. It had obvious signs that the fibers were not bonded as well. I addressed the situation on a couple of them by using a super thin cyanoacrylate glue to soak into the head of the stock and bind the fibers. To me, it seemed that the only area of the stock that had lost resins enough that it was a concern, was in the stock head where the oil had soaked it for decades. So, I attributed the damage mostly to the oil soaking and not the short use of harsh solvents to remove the oil. So, I have no illusions that removing oil restores strength. I think the damage is done to whatever level and only adding a binder like the cyanoacrylate glue after the oil removal will restore a portion of the original strength. Just my 2 cents.

Regards
Chuck

There are guns and there are shoulders. I started shooting light loads a few years ago, 3/4 ounce 20ga, 3/4 - 1 ounce 12ga and 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 ounce 10ga. There is no doubt they are easier on guns but the really big plus is how easy they are on one's shoulder. I am so pleased with 7/8 ounce 12ga on trap singles I wonder now why I thought it necessary to shoot tens of thousands 1 1/8 ounce loads. A 1 ounce 12ga load will clobber any upland game bird with authority. The big 10 shooting 1 1/4 ounce is a magic wand all the way to 60 yards +. I think back in the 1920's when Super X shells came out ammunition and gun manufacturers started marketing more and bigger is better. The american shooting public bought it. Too many generations have past and the market of more is better continues, many of us have had to relearn the effectiveness and benefits of light loads. Light loads are a pleasant surprise for those who haven't tried them, and they are easier on the wallet too if you reload.

Pete,
I could'nt agree more with your statement. I started shooting 7/8oz., 6200psi. loads 20+ yrs ago in my Parkers not because I was worried about the gun as much as I did not like getting pounded. My scores did not change but my ability to enjoy shooting 100+ rounds in a day went up dramatically. I've now went over to a 3/4oz. 20ga load and have found it to be just effective as the 7/8oz. Now that I'm getting older I worry about my guns that are twice my age and in much better shape.
PS- I've always thought the major ammo companies are missing the Public Relations boat by not introducing these light loads to the general shooting public. You know, less lead in the environment, reduced costs, etc. The NSSA and the ATA along with the Sporting Clays governing body should mandate the use of these reduced loads in their events. I only see it as a win-win situation. Ok- I'm putting my soap box away and heading off to shoot some clays. (With light loads of course).

The 12 gauge killed considerable interest in our sports because beginners learned, "man, does that thing kick," and word got around. The fact that we bought into the bigger-is-better including the bang doesn't say much for our brains. The evidence of lighter-load efficacy was in our faces every day. Promoting lighter loads, as mentioned above, would bring more to the shooting sports than all the tiresome ranting and raving.

modern epoxy glues and small brass pins are wonderful things...