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-   -   CH Opportunity (https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9443)

Charlie 05-13-2013 02:56 PM

IMHO, these were originally Vulcan Steel barrels but someone has re-engraved TITANIC over VULCAN on the top rib. The arrow is from a standard Vulcan roll-die. Note the second E in STEEL is larger than the first; this is from a Vulcan. TPS Vol II has pictures of roll-die marks used on top ribs. Charlie Price

Bill Murphy 05-13-2013 04:07 PM

Whoever did all this work certainly paid attention to details and built a heck of a stock. Remember, the Mathewson stock was capped pistol grip. I am going with Turnbull's shop or Robert Runge or someone just as talented for the rib engraving. The whole package is pretty nice. Photographs of the rib inscription from different angles may confirm that the words "Titanic" and/or "Steel" are engraved, not roll marked.

John Gardner 05-13-2013 05:56 PM

Wow. I won't presume to add a contribution to the Parker side of the equation in this august company other than to say it is a beautiful gun!

You did however ask about the value with association to a former owner or event and David weighed in on that point and, as I can contribute on this aspect in this case, I would comment as well.

You have made a good dollar investment in a Parker. You have made a great dollar investment in baseball memorabilia. This combines to create a SUPERB investment.

The issue is not that your gun may not have all the original bits and the barrels aren't the original Bernard, (the lug has a 2 marked I think used to denote a second barrel set?), and whether current barrels are true Titanic or Vulcan re-roll marked, - (both legitimately expanding your shooting options over the original Bernard), and that the stock is now straight versus pistol grip in the letter, or even the issue of amount of refinish - lovely done by the way - versus original finish. Indeed all of which, and this was referenced already by another member, can be reasonably explained by the active use of the gun over time.

All the above would be very significant, in fact be the most significant, aspect of the gun's value even greater perhaps than present condition of the gun - IF not for the association with the World's Fair and Christy Mathewson. This is where I transition away from the emphasis of value from the comments thus far.

A CH grade gun will always carry an intrinsic value and it will always have it's devoted (me too!) admirers. However CH grades are not exceedingly rare.

A documented World's Fair gun is a much rarer bird and a documented gun associated with one of the immortals of baseball - and their were few if any players ever more loved and admired than Christy Mathewson, is in a category of it's own.

Fast history: Not only was he an exceptionally skilled ball player (13 out of 14 years he won 20+ games and had 4 seasons over 30+ games - he was a literal GIANT of the game - pun intended!) he was also a true gentlemen and genuine American hero. "He gripped the imagination of a country that held a hundred million people and held this grip with a firmer hold than any man of his day or time" per Grantland Rice the famous sportswriter of the era.

I have no idea what you paid for your gun, nor do I desire to as I would probably cry like a baby with envy, but I can assure you that, since it has iron clad provenance to Christy, if it is worth '$X' as a Parker in present condition and value as a World's Fair gun, to a Mathewson collector it is at least 50% more.

Frankly I am only started with 50% as that small, churlish, bit deep inside of me hopes I could persuade you to part with it!

To me, and I am only a generalist when it comes to Mathewson and this is the part where I may get the other members thinking I'm nuts, :), I would much, much, rather own Christy Mathewson's C gun then any non-provenance A. You have a collector's dream - an item that crosses multiple markets.

My warmest congratulations. Enjoy! Cheers JG

Brian Dudley 05-13-2013 06:58 PM

One thing that I noticed about the rib marking is that all the characters are in regular (non italic) font. This is correct for all barrel steel under Titanic. However, According to TPS examples of roll stamps, barrel steels titanic and up have Italic font being used for the whole rib marking. So, in addition to the incorrect arrows, it appears that the font style is also not correct.

Dean Romig 05-13-2013 07:22 PM

So, the last record we see on this gun was from 1900. A lot may have happened in the next few decades (during which time Mathewson died of tuberculosis - probably a complication stemming from a gas attack during his service in WW-I) including going back to Parker Bros. as a result of the next owner possibly having damaged the barrels or believing them to be 'unsafe to shoot with modern powder'.
I am convinced the barrels are a factory replacement by one fact alone.... who else but the Parker Bros. factory barrel-makers would have known to stamp a set of Vulcan barrels with the number code for a C-grade, a 4 in the absolute correct location on the barrel flats?!

Dave Suponski 05-13-2013 08:10 PM

I agree with Dean. Here's something to think about. Could this be a clue that Parker Bros. used the same steel in all their fluid steel guns and just marked them according to grade? Except of course Whitworth .

Dean Romig 05-13-2013 08:24 PM

This is another in a string of "apparent evidence". Look for an article in this Summer Issue of Parker Pages which we believe is pretty conclusive.

D.P.Warden 05-14-2013 12:48 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Gentlemen,

If more photos are what you need to answer these questions, just let me know and I'll take as many detailed photos as possible. I also have in my possession the original straight grip stock. Should I be looking for a set of 1.5 frame Bernards to put all of this debate to rest? The original wood was just as snazzy as the new...

I'm not one who collects for the sake of simply having a collection, if I buy it, I use it, and I'm feeling like I may have something too rare to actually use. If there are some CH Mathewson fans out there that could give this beauty a nice home PM me and we will work out the details. I'm going to be doing a lot of traveling over the next couple of months due to this being heavy state trapshooting season and I'm considering a Caesar Guerini back up gun to my Beretta. My better half is recommending selling something before buying something else, so I'm officially considering offers:)

Dean Romig 05-14-2013 06:34 AM

Sorry if our comments have been offensive - basically we're just discussing it without disparaging your wonderful Parker. In my case, I'm convinced the barrels are a Parker Bros. replacement and that makes them 'original factory work' which is always good.

Your CH is in exceptional condition but it is not too nice to shoot. Many of us have very nice guns with great provenance and we shoot them. If I were you I would keep it and shoot it at gatherings of Parker and other SXS shooting venues.

Brian Dudley 05-14-2013 07:47 AM

What a wonderful thing to have the original stock for the gun. Especially since it was taken off so long ago.


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