Physicists well I don't if i'm one. But I do know that 4 drams of black and a oz. 1/4 of shot has a little recoil, may crack a stock that does not have proper grain through the wrist. One thing nice abought plain ol stright grain walnut it's tough. I use a load I got from Craig nice shootin load not heavy recoil. oz. 1/8 out of my ten. I haven't shot as many phesants as some but I have shot dove loads at phesants when I didn't have any thing else at the farm and killed birds seams to me people blaming shells on losing birds is kind of like blaming your horse win you miss a steer. Excuses are like -------- everybody got one. ch

I think folks here often say low pressure ( which relates to barrel hoop stress) when they mean low recoil ( which relates to the pounding the gun and your shoulder take). A low pressure load slows the powder burn and ignition rate so the hoop stress is spread over more distance of the barrel. TPS has the barrel pressure service and proof load pressures.

Low recoil means less whack on the gun and you. The recoil formula considers only the weight and velocity of what comes out the barrel end. You want less recoil, you select less shot or less speed. Perceived recoil takes the weight and configuration of the gun into effect. Heavy gun, straighter stock, recoil pad, make the gun kick less. The Parker catalog tables show what Parker recommended for loads and gun weight.

I'm no shotgun ballistics expert but I've read a bit and shot a bit and if I can grasp the essentials anyone can. It ain't rocket science.

Now Calvin, this isn't my first rodeo, and I know the horse has to get you there and keep you there for you to have a chance at the steer. I guess if maybe one shotshell load would do everything there would be no need for all the various loads the ammunition companies make. Maybe they have been mistaken for the last 100 years?

A curious observation: lots of gun guys are adamant about their personal freedoms, freedom of speech, gun rights, etc. They don't want anybody telling them what to do. Yet when somebody asks what they CAN shoot, they answer with what they SHOULD shoot. They seem to want to tell folks their personal preferences rather than what the manufacturer said, as if the manufacturer was wrong and they know better. And woe be to the fellow who disagrees with their personal preferences, because they are wrong , wrong, wrong, or stupid and should be banned from owning a Parker. Or they seem to want to assume the guy has a beat up cracked up thinned barrel gun when they don't even ask. Just seems to me, and I'm no expert at all, that maybe the guy deserves a complete answer?

Bruce (usually shoots low recoil loads but sometimes full loads) Day

Hey JD how about closing this thread... It's getting real old. Eric

Hey Eric, I know when I don't want to look at something any more, I don't look at it anymore. I do that instead of asking somebody else to prevent me or anybody else from looking at it anymore. But maybe that is a personal freedom matter that folks are not capable of handling.

There you go Bruce "flame me " if you want, I am just getting real tired of you trying to prove you are the only person that is "right". :bowdown: So now I will bow out of this thread.. Eric

This thread may or may not have 'run its course' but I think we are gathering some good information that will help us expand FAQ #32 which I'm sure even Ribin will agree is lacking a lot of very accurate and useful information that probably everybody can benefit from. But a lot of the information in the is there for the "newbies" especially so when useful information is added to FAQ #32 is will be fact and not opinion. A lot of very useful facts have been posted on this thread and more is likely to surface here so I don't think this thread should be closed.

If usefull facts are being found in this thread then I will take back my "close this thread". I'll just stay out of the fray. Eric

In a nutshell the way I see things it's a question; should the brand new owner of a Parker shotgun, one who is unfamiliar with classic doubles, treat it like an off the shelf Remington 870, Ruger O&U and the like WRT ammunition or should they recognize it is an antiquity and in some regards MAY be more fragile. I think the majority opinion here is to treat it more gently. One could say or reference that many members of this group have and do shoot modern heavy loads through many solid Parker's and have for many years without incident. In turn it can also be stated that many members here have enjoyed a great performance on clays and game using light loads. In all cases prior to shooting their new to them Parker it should be evaluated by a knowledgable and competent gunsmith. The advice to keep one's loads light remains good advice on the side of caution but the choice of ammunition for a sound gun is personal.

I agree- me too
 

Just one final thought, as I consider most all of the gents who have posted herein to be Parker friends--we don't want to see our PGCA Forum turn into the aparent nastiness if not downright rudeness we can see on other double gun oriented (but not paid membership) forums. No good can come of that.

I read with great interest Calvin's post and his comment about 'excuses" being a lot like noses, we all seem to have one. This can surface just as well in a bowling alley on league night, on a 18 hole golf course, as well as on a SC, skeet or trap field.

It's human nature to want to make every shot count, and especially on the game birds we hunt in season, we all want clean kills and no cripples to escape and feed the "Airborne Prize Patrols" either.

So if we miss clean or pull feathers from a hauling-bass Rooster in a heavy wind, and we are using a shotgun with which we are quite familiar, we wonder "Howcome"--and think perhaps about choke or shotload changes. No man hits 100% of what he shoots at with any shotgun, just as you don't sit all night at the poker table and hit full houses and four of a kind hands one after the other-

The other day I was out on a river after late season Geese- M12 3" and Federal steel BB's- four came banking around the bend, and flared, I shot about three neck lengths ahead of the lead bird (est 25 yard overhead shot, he never slowed down a hair- but the third bird in the formation shuddered in mid-flight and I hit him dead center with the second shot- a lesson to be learned every time we venture afield. My waterfowling mentor as a lad, besides my Grandfather, father and uncles- shot a 30" Full M1897 Pigeon Grade for everything, including box pigeons for dinero (but not Capt. Harold Money, alas) one told me that if you get one dead in hand duck for every three shells, you are way above average (including finishing crips) and one mallard for two shells- you are in the expert ranks.

If a FAQ answer could be put together along those lines, I'd be happy. And if the answer could reference Parker load tables, even happier.