Burton Spiller......"at 25 yards or less, no grouse can fly through the center of an evenly distributed pattern of #9 and come out alive".

William Harnden Foster...."a big vulnerable bird much softer than the Hungarian, the quail to say nothing of the dove and easier to kill with light shot" (he is talking about 9's and 8's)........."with the change to a larger pellet, he is sacrificing his required density for it should be remembered that while there are some 585 #9 shot in an ounce there are but 345 # 7 1/2." ......."your thoughtful grouse hunter will prefer to stick to his #9's and #8's throughout the season and, at the same time, to his conservative ranges."

Alan and Tom, please don't misunderstand. My inspiration to do the testing is not to denigrate the use of number 10 shot, but rather, to find out how it works. And I believe it works, within it's range limitations.
This project is in good hands.

That's a given Todd. I never thought different. I think that what you'll find is that more hits from a denser pattern (more shot in the load) with smaller pellets has a greater killing effect, within reason and on a "soft" bird, than fewer hits from larger shot. And I would guess a linear effect in increased killing power with more smaller pellets vs. fewer larger shot.

I am glad you are working this Todd.

[QUOTE=Tom Flanigan;240696]That's a given Todd. I never thought different. I think that what you'll find is that more hits from a denser pattern (more shot in the load) with smaller pellets has a greater killing effect, within reason and on a "soft" bird, than fewer hits from larger shot. And I would guess a linear effect in increased killing power with more smaller pellets vs. fewer larger shot.

That is definitely the crux of the issue. How much energy does it take to kill a grouse or maybe other birds. Then comparing how much combined energy or number of pellets does it take for larger shot and smaller shot to achieve enough energy to harvest the bird. I think there is crossover point at some distance where at typical loads the smaller shot loses oomph because it decelerates or loses energy faster than larger shot. I guess what is its effective range.

To clarify my post.

I have always hunted woodcock and grouse over a dog or dogs, naturally most all my shooting was close,quick sight picture,and trigger pull. Woodcock being my favorite game bird. Larger shot always seemed to do more body damage to the bird than small shot, penetration. Grouse that did not get up under foot, I just did not shoot.

For pheasant hunting in the west, my favorite gun was a Parker 12,F/F with #6's in the right barrel and #4's in the left barrel.

I guess my conclusion would be, it certainly depends what you are hunting for.
A 22 would not be a good cartridge after elk,but a 338 Winchester Mag might be a better selection.

Just my 2 cents worth
Allan

Great topic !!

A nice grouse taken a few years back at 32 stepped off yards with a 16 bore Fox, right barrel with its factory IC choke. Actually the shell was in my coat pocket from woodcock hunting earlier that season and I thought I'd loaded a 7-1/2 in the Fox.

Although the bird dropped nicely it was an open shot and I wouldn't deliberately load 10's again for my grouse hunting here in PA. JMO but that's based on plenty of walk-up hunting over the years in our northern mountains. Generally I'll use 7-1/2's or handloaded 7's.

frank

I have seen the same tendency for heavier than required loads for shooting large game as I have for grouse hunting. Many feel that a 7mm magnum class rifle is needed for moose and other large game. What they don’t take into account is that recoil with magnum loads, while sighting in at the bench, encourages flinching and many don’t sight their gun in sufficiently or practice with it.

The aboriginal largely subsistence people in far northern Saskatchewan rely mostly on old model 94 30-30 Winchesters. They kill a lot of moose with these guns and one rarely hears of a lost moose.

I hunt moose in addition to ducks, geese and huns and sharpetails. I have taken a number of them and bears with a pre- 64 Winchester model 70 .270 shooting 130 grain handloads. I have never had a moose go over 75 yards from the spot where it was hit. Accuracy and bullet placement is the key.

I became close friends with the aboriginal people. Most of my ducks, geese, other birds I shot, including moose, went to them. They appreciated that and gave me permission to hunt tribal lands and showed me the best areas for moose. They watched Stoney my setter when I disappeared a few days for moose. They are wonderful people.

Thanks, Dave. A box of RST "Best" Grade 2" shot shells arrived today. We're one big step closer.

Well, Mr. Allen we are anxiously awaiting the results of the grand 10 shot test. Anything to report?

Ha. Could not resist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQFxmAdyKcg