Shotgunning gamebirds cannot be compared to using rifles on big game. My previous post about the number of pellets placed on target explains why. You can put just as many pellets on target with a small bore as with a larger bore, up to a point. Not so when comparing a 150 gr. bullet to a 350 gr. bullet. The energy delivered to the quarry is vastly different.

Couldn't agree more with him on that..... I hear a lot of people say, a 223 Rem will kill deer just fine.... With a well placed shot. I hunt deer in Northern MO, and some of the bucks I have killed, even a well place 22 cal wasn't going to bring them down quickly....

I guess as with many things in life, there is always the question of.... Ya, you can do it that way, but why would you if there are much better ways of getting it done......

IMHO for whitetail deer in my home state, anything less than a 6mm/.243 cal is not taking enough gun..... 6mm-30cal is what you need.

In the case of quail with a shotgun, it's a bit different, because using a .410 usually means you either kill the bird stone dead, or completely miss..... Shotgunning the margin of error is "Missing vs hitting", with big game rifes it's "Wounding vs Killing".

With regard to full chokes, a hit is history, and a miss is a mystery.

I’ve gone the gamut with shotguns killing game birds with everything from an 8 down to a 410 . While I don’t consider myself the end all expert I feel I have a pretty decent grasp of most situations . To me it’s more a matter of the individual knowing their own limitations with a specific gauge and shot size for a specific bird . As to the rifle or whatever versus the whitetail deer . Again I don’t think myself the end all authority but I do believe I’ve got a pretty decent amount of practical application experience . And again the cartridge is kind of a moot point to me , I’m pretty picky about my shots and rarely do I shoot at running deer . So a head shot at a doe during damage control with a 222 , 223 or 220 Swift at 200 yards is no big deal . Now to the other end of the spectrum a person can use some of the so called African cartridges I see no issue with that as well . As Elmer Keith who I’m no great fan of said “you can eat right up to the bullet hole” and I’ve found that to be true with 375 H&H , 416 Rem Mag , 416 Rigby and of all things the 505 Gibbs . FWIW the 505 belongs to a friend and I plunked a deer with it one day during damage control while he was sitting beside me . No great feat in itself . Birds or deer to me it’s all a matter of knowing your own limitations with whatever happens to be in your hands at the time .

Daryl told us what Capt. Askins had to say about the 12 gauge so I decided to see what he said about his choice of gauge for bird hunting. Here's what he wrote : What the sixteen will not do on quail and snipe, loaded with 1-1/8 ounces of shot, is not to be done, and at the same time the arm would be a pound lighter than a twelve for the same cartridge energy, and far more handy, with of course less weight of ammunition to burden coat pockets. For my own use, if I could own but one gun, that one would be a 16 bore, 6-3/4 pounds weight, 30 inch barrels, one modified and the other full choke, and I'd be liable to say, "Get thee behind me Satan for you cannot tempt me any further."

Jack, that 16 he describes sounds familiar, and it would be an end-all upland gun. As for me, Satan successfully tempts me all the time.:banghead::crying:

Sorry, but Harry G and Daryl are comparing two vastly different authors with vastly different philosophies on shotguns. Sorry again, if I missed their corrections, but five pages of dialogue is a bit much to review.

What Craig says is about my philosophy. Knowing the capabilities of your gun and ammunition go the longest way

Sorry Murph, we were both quoting Chas. Askins from his various writings.

Meh. Just shoot a 20. If you miss it isn’t the gun’s fault. Country boy reasoning.