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-   -   A C Grade without Barrels (https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6128)

edgarspencer 07-21-2012 08:47 PM

So Bill, are you working on that memorial for Jack?

Bill Murphy 07-21-2012 09:33 PM

Mostly I'm waiting for the mailman. However, when the mailman arrives, I'll get right on that memorial project. Any ideas?

Mark Ouellette 07-21-2012 11:18 PM

Bill,

This letter came with the gun. A case is mentioned.

from: Roy W. Gunther
29 July 1993

Regarding your number 41525 with mixed damascus in one set of the barrels, I have seen this on other guns, but never a Parker. The Parkers were very frugal Connecticut Yankees and were reluctant to throw anything away. Your gun was ordered on June 2 , 1884 by a Rev. P.J. Kearney of Fulton, N.Y. The order included a case and a complete set of tools. The gun was completed on September 9, and shipped on September 27. This gun was directly ordered by Kearney and did not go through a dealer. In cases like this, the individual was always charged list price. In this case, however, Kearney received a 20% discount on the entire order. Perhaps this discount was offered because of the mismatched pattern in the 28 inch barrels. The mismatch would not have been noticed until the barrels had been completely finished and browned. At this point Parker had incurred all the expense involved in making the barrels and throwing them away would have been a complete loss. These extra barrels sold for $60. I guess they figured the discount was the better way to go. Apparently, the Reverend was happy with this arrangement.

It is just by chance that I happened to have the applicable order book here. Normally, I'm not able to get the information on specific orders.

Bill Murphy 07-22-2012 10:09 AM

Commander Gunther is a treasure as is this letter. Kevin McCormack and I lunched with the Commander the day in 1998 that he gifted the PGCA the Parker Brothers stock book copies which he had copied at great expense of time and effort. I'm sure the other members of the research committee will join me in saying "I don't know if we could have done it."

Paul Stafford 07-22-2012 04:23 PM

I can't wait to see pictures of this wonderful reunion. As I have searched all over the 50 states I have not found my bernard barrels for my 12 ga. I suppose you must hope that eventually they pop up if they haven't found a new home. Great story!

Bill Murphy 07-22-2012 06:33 PM

Hey, Mark, the letter from Commander Gunther is great, but do you have a PGCA letter to possibly add to the provenance? Maybe we can confirm the model number of your case. The model number is mentioned on the order for my CH. It is the #38 which is a leather covered shellback case. The "shellback" refers to the provision in the lid for loose ammunition. I haven't looked at my #38 case for years, but will drag it out for Kevin to work his magic.

Mills Morrison 07-22-2012 08:14 PM

This is a great story! Hope to see pictures and an article in Parker Pages:usa:

Dean Romig 07-22-2012 08:41 PM

Paul, what is the serial number of the missing Bernard barrels?

Paul Stafford 07-22-2012 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Romig (Post 74936)
Paul, what is the serial number of the missing Bernard barrels?

It's 101184, it was an exhibition built c grade built for display purposes "per Parker letter", it's a beautiful gun that at some point was fitted with vickers steel barrels. I just wish to find the originals at any cost. It's just about restoring a classic.

Dean Romig 07-22-2012 10:21 PM

That's odd... 101184 is shown as having been made with Acme Steel barrels, does the letter state otherwise?

Paul Stafford 07-22-2012 11:38 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Romig (Post 74943)
That's odd... 101184 is shown as having been made with Acme Steel barrels, does the letter state otherwise?

I have attached a copy of the letter.

Dean Romig 07-23-2012 05:28 AM

Thanks Paul. That's another example of the importance of getting a research letter as opposed to simply relying on the information contained in the Identification & Serialization book.

Dean

Bill Murphy 07-23-2012 08:29 AM

One of our members sold a set of Bernard barrels on gunbroker.com a while back. As I recall, they were #1 frame. What frame size is your gun?

Paul Stafford 07-23-2012 09:57 AM

It's a #2 frame

Dave Suponski 08-01-2012 02:20 PM

Bill, Any further updates?

Bill Murphy 08-01-2012 02:21 PM

OK, the back end of CH #86988 arrived Monday afternoon, securely packed. I couldn't be more happy to have this journey at an end, except that it is not actually at an end. As the seller warned me, the stock has been repaired, and not a very good job. It is broken off at the wrist, poorly pinned and glued and kind of sanded down and recheckered poorly. There is not enough wood to rerepair and rechecker unless a coating of epoxy is used to bring the grip area up to size. However, I have heard of that being done, but by whom? The easy way out is a restock, but of course I would rather save the original stock if a good repair can be done. The stock is well used, deeply dented, but with original straight grip and skeleton butt. I am inclined to send the whole package to Dave Wolf in Waco for his assessment. The trigger guard tang looks to have been sanded down with the wood, but all other engraving on the gun is untouched with only one ruined receiver screw and one ruined trigger guard screw. The top lever spring is broken or some other problem inside is keeping it from returning under spring tension. This will be one of those guns that I will finish by calling in more than a couple of my repair, stockmaking, and engraving guys. I am still not on my feet, so pictures are a few days away. I put the bird barrels on the gun yesterday while Mr. McCormack was visiting. It may be the first time the gun has been together for many decades. It is some gun with the 28" barrels but did not put it on the scale to check its weight. The original owner, Starling Lebby Hinson, had the pleasure of using the bird barrels on his family's 3500 acre plantation on James Island, South Carolina. There were probably a few quail on the property when he brought the gun home from Charleston in 1897. No specifications were asked of the 32" barrels except "Bore for buckshot and send paper targets." I guess there were a few deer on the property also. More to come.

tom tutwiler 08-01-2012 02:31 PM

Looking forward to those pictures Bill.

George M. Purtill 08-01-2012 04:04 PM

this is a great story.

Dave Suponski 08-01-2012 04:24 PM

Bill, Thanks for the update. This is a great story. I bet she smiled when you snapped those barrels on......:)

Dean Romig 08-01-2012 04:41 PM

If David Trevallion was still in business he would definitely be the one to invisably bring that stock back to its former glory. Anyone know if David is up and running yet?

Robin Lewis 08-01-2012 05:17 PM

I got an update on Dave about a week ago. He is unlicensed at the moment because he moved from his shop/home to a new location. The ATF needs to reissue the papers so ....... ? He didn't move far, he is still in Maine. A fellow PGCA member has his new address and promised to share it with me but as yet I have not learned it. When I do, I can check with Dave and get a more up to date status.

Bill Murphy 08-01-2012 05:20 PM

If David showed interest in this project, I would jump on it. However, I don't expect him to respond. That said, I like David a lot and would appreciate his input.

Ray Masciarella 08-01-2012 05:47 PM

Like Paul, I also have a gun (AH) that was shipped to Tryon on Nov 19, 1901 and Fletcher on Feb 3, 1902 for show/exhibition purposes. Does anyone know what these shows were or the names of these shows? Thx, Ray

Dean Romig 08-01-2012 06:21 PM

We should thank the Good Lord he was able to get to a new location finally.

Mills Morrison 08-01-2012 06:30 PM

Can't wait to see photos of Bill's find. Also the fact that it needs restoration means we will get more installments of this great story.

Robert Delk 08-20-2012 08:22 PM

Huh?

Paul Plager 08-21-2012 01:13 AM

Bill. I'm glad that all the Parker parts have been brought back together, I am more glad that you are doing well in your healing.
So many people have posted on this link so many times that I begin to thing I know them and you. I am relitively new to the Parker & PGCA world and have not yet met anyone else personaly but by reading this post I'm glad I joined and hope to meet other members like yourself. God bless.

Bill Murphy 08-21-2012 10:45 AM

Pictures are on hold awaiting Mr. McCormack's fluffing of the case. The gun will be out for a top lever spring and a couple of new screws. The engraving is untouched but a bit brown. I found a Frontier pad in the loading room and will fool with that a bit on friend Dean's advice.

Mills Morrison 08-21-2012 10:50 AM

Some before and after pictures would be cool. Something about seeing the results of restoration money that makes it all worth it.

Bill Murphy 10-19-2012 03:45 PM

I have the two barrel CH Grade Bernard gun packed up for the Fall Southern. The 28" barrels now live on the great little DH that John Davis provided me with, so this will be a two gun display. The case will not make the trip since it is in Kevin McCormack's case hospital for the winter. The gun is in unrestored condition with broken straight grip buttstock, but with original skeleton butt. I hope you will enjoy seeing the "Rest of the Story".

George M. Purtill 10-19-2012 03:51 PM

Yahoo

Mills Morrison 10-19-2012 03:52 PM

Look forward to seeing you there and seeing the gun behind the legend.

Dean Romig 10-19-2012 05:01 PM

Bill, I am really looking forward to seeing that gun rejoined with all of its parts.

Someday I hope I will be lucky enough to find the back half of my Bernard set of barrels. If I ever do it will be one sweet reunion for it will be one of those desirable "light upland" twelve gauge, 1-frame beauties with twin ivories atop 26" open and mod barrels.

Bill Murphy 10-19-2012 05:35 PM

Dean, just do what I did. Put "WANTED" ads on internet gun sites, advertise your plight on every forum you choose to join, repeat those advertisements on a quarterly basis, contact every seller of a C Grade Parker asking for their serial number, attend every gun show you can fit into your schedule looking for C Grade Parkers, and in twenty five years, a guy like Jack Cronkhite will give you a piece of information that will lead you to your gun. My two other successful reunions ended the same way, after lots of hard work on my part, but the actual ending in each case was courtesy of a fellow collector who brought the search to a close. By the way, all three of my successful searches involved guns that were high grade factory two barrel sets.

greg conomos 10-19-2012 06:20 PM

I'd enjoy seeing some pics, anyway.

Bill Murphy 10-19-2012 08:12 PM

Maybe a Parker Pages editor will take some pictures at the Fall Southern and post or publish them. It's not a particularly flashy gun, but with 32" and 28" barrels, bored cylinder in both 28" barrels and full in both 32" barrels, straight grip, Bernard Steel, skeleton butt, it matches what may be our modern day dream gun, if we were to order a 12 gauge Parker for $225.00. I have not seen this particular combination before, after examining thousands of Parker orders. My only improvement would be to order a higher grade.

Dave Suponski 10-19-2012 08:21 PM

Bill,I will have a camera with me as I am sure Dean will also. Believe me Bill this gun will not unnoticed....

George M. Purtill 10-19-2012 08:41 PM

A story behind the story is how these high grade factory two barrel sets ever get separated in the first place. I can't imagine forgetting to bring home my barrels.

Mills Morrison 10-19-2012 08:55 PM

This is a very worthy Parker Pages story.

Dean Romig 10-19-2012 09:32 PM

Thanks for the advice Bill.

My barrels are from 118705. I hope to find the rest of this CHE.

Might as well start here.


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