As a range owner, I see more shooters bringing SxS guns to shoot clays. Many more express the desire to own and shoot SxSs. Those same shooters have no desire to spend any more than a few hundred dollars on a double gun but will buy the latest/greatest veg-o-matic and realize it didn’t help their scores. Then they want to sell the used gun for new prices. As the saying goes, “It is what it is.”

If you own $30k guns, why can’t you pony up $30 to support the PGCA? You certainly spend enough time here.

-Victor

Actually it’s $40 but the point remains...





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Its a personal thing for me. If you want to know more then PM me. I never said I own a $30,000.00 gun

Just an observation. If this is the case it's happening when there is plenty of money floating around, unemployment at 3.7% and stock market at all time high. What would be happening with the prices of these guns if the country was in hard or even average economic times?

It’s also a personal thing to people who pay their own way.

You were the one who said the annual member wasn't committed to the PGCA and I'd been a member for 12 + years and therefore paid in more money than you have as a life member so lets not go there:nono:

I said that becoming a life member is a demonstration of long term commitment. I did not say that annual members were not committed to the organization.


Your logic was that because you had been an annual member for some years, you felt entitled to cease paying and have your past payments retroactively credited toward life payments. I don’t know of any organization that does that nor does any insurance company credit term life payments toward paid up life insurance.

I do not share your logic, but it does provide justification in your opinion to not pay dues yet enjoy the benefits of participating on the forum.

Whatever floats your boat:whistle:

So back to the subject, has the market for Parkers bottomed,?

I think the general consensus is that it is in a state of flux or in a continuous state of fluidity.





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As much as I wish it were otherwise, I believe I must add another word to the discussion: "Decline."

All eras blossom, revel, and then pass. Some take longer to run the cycle than others. But in our time, things were tied to the culture we lived in and inherited. Like a tradition of field sport, sophistication, respect and reverence for the past. That's fading fast. Along with the inherent value of double guns. Parker or otherwise. Proof? Just look at our "For Sale" section and notice what's for sale, and how much of it moves.

Then consider today's youth. THIS is what they consider a cool shotgun. IF they consider shotgun sport at all:

It seems most of the young folks I meet are into more/bigger/higher/faster/farther and ad executives sure buy into that; just look at the ads for fishing gear out there. My nephew brought along a guy on our last South Dakota trip; decent enough young fellow with a new lab and a new Benelli auto. He was amused at my old "double barrels" and my feeling that any bird that I can't hit with two shots deserves to fly on. I said that on a couple of rare occasions I'd been lucky enough to take two birds out of a rise. He said something like, "If a bunch of birds get up I want a chance at all of 'em!"

That is a bit misleading. Guns are cheap everywhere now. Colt just came out with a new python and demand is high and you can still find it for less than MSRP. Same with glocks, remingtons, winchesters, brownings, smiths, benelli, turnbull, etc etc etc.

We had a record 8-10 year period of gun prices and gun sales, good economy or bad economy. We are paying for some of that now. It is a buyers market, there just isn't a big impetus to get people buying after the previous gun boom.

IMO that's the kind of attitude we should be discouraging in young folks.

I think we were all raised with a respect for the game we hunt and to be ethical in all matters. Ethical means doing the right thing, even when nobody's looking.

A lot of people see game animals and birds in an adversarial combatant vein rather than as an element in our heritage to be respected.





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I agree.

But there ain't no telling how much death and ecological mayhem can be accomplished by three dudes with semi-automatics... in the name of sport.

I agree with you, Dean, but there are recognized developmental stages in every hunter's life. Although not all of us progress through all of the stages, it's important to recognize them, especially as we interact with younger and less experienced hunters. The earlier stages reveal themselves in hunters that like to have action, see lots of game, etc. Then we see the desire to "limit out," followed by more concern with "method" -- using antique firearms, traditional recurve bows, etc., and ultimately the lack of concern for bagging game but a desire for reflection and sharing the experience. Again, these are not value judgements of hunters, but the recognized stages that many go through, and it's not to say that a hunter with many years of experience doesn't still want to see and take game. It does, however, help to explain, and maybe make us more patient with, those younger hunters who want to take a limit of game. I certainly remember measuring my success by the game I took as a young hunter. The young hunters that want to shoot as much game *as legal* may just develop into the ones to carry on the heritage of hunting.

Now, the ones that break laws and violate ethical values should not be tolerated.

But when each of us takes a young hunter on as a companion, we can most certainly present a model for them. What we do in their presence really does matter, and I could not agree more your assertion that how we act when no one is looking is the true measure of a hunter.

Very well stated Garry.





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At the age of 14 I bought A5 with the money I made mowing lawns ( 110.00) Pheasant hunting with my dad the dog put up a bird and I fired all 5 before it was 30 yards away, The Old Man moved the pipe to the other side cocked the hammer on the H&R 16 single, looked at me, then killed it stone dead. He would not let the dog retrieve but told me to take off my boots and wade out and get it. Then he swapped guns with me and I did not get my hands on it for 1 year. In the same field we jumped a rabbit and I let it go about 35 to 40 yards and shot it, with out a word he handed me the A5. Later he said 2 shells are in case you miss the first shot, 3 are for a triple but you have to shoot the first bird first. No i am still, 60 years later, trying to perfect my ability to match his but now only hunt with a gun that holds 2.

I think ideally, all young sportsmen should start out with time spent looking at a campfire in the outdoors, with the cold at your back.
My hunting career started that way. The Eastern Arms break open single shot .410 was a formidable weapon, that I got to carry.
That gun is on the wall in my office, as I type.

....listening, with the firelight on their eager faces, to the stories their Dads and Granddads tell about their times in the outdoors and passing along information that is as useful today as it was in the "Old Days."






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This gun had almost mythical power in my childhood. Grandpa protected the chicken coop with it.
I shot a couple of doves with it last year, btw.
Attachment 79681

I'm very new to Parkers (28g repro). Thank God there are people left who appreciate aesthetics and grace. I think this can be taught to some extent so its' upon each of us to show someone else what a beautiful gun feels like. We'll have to face the fact that maybe we're weirdo's who prefer to carry Leica's, fish with bamboo and shoot very old expensive guns. I'm not an old fart (at least yet...) but I'm looking forward to another (real) Parker someday. Don't we see the same thing with cars? Some have soul, some just don't. Usually the ones without soul are the new ones. To some, a car is a tool. Same with a gun. Life is short, do what makes your heart smile.

Depends on the state of the economy in part and user/collector demand.

You're right about cars and "soul." But sorry. NOTHING in today's automotive market has any soul. Orange juice colour or not.

Love that Jaguar.... I'm a Porsche fanatic, always have been. The newer ones lose a little of their magic for me but the DNA comes through. I always get the question: "Why not just buy a WRX, just as fast, for less money..." The same reason I don't eat at a buffet.

Andy:

You are going to fit right in here at the PGCA.

-Victor

That's what I'm afraid of...

I have found that when I'm buying, it's a seller's market. And when I'm selling, it's a buyer's market. Which of course goes hand in hand with my business philosophy of "Buy high and Sell low".

:rotf:

as an old friend used to say

Buy high, sell low, and make it up in volume :rolleyes:

maybe old willie has got it right...charlie

My dad had me start hunting with just walking with him. Then he bought me a single shot 410 hammer gun at 12 yrs old. I hunted grouse, pheasant and woodcock with that till 16 when he was satisfied that i was hunting properly and i then graduated to a Parker 16 ga VH. Parkers ever since with an occasional Belgian Browning in the mix. Dad would always tell me that if you can't hit the bird in 2 shots, the bird deserves to fly away. God love him.

your dad was a rightous man...charlie

Charlie, he was s wonderful dad. He died at age 56 from ALS, Lou Gherigs disease. Miss him to this day

Thanks so much everyone for your input, many very well thought out opinions that are helpful to us all. But I still can't believe I bought a really nice DH 12/30 dam for 1500 dollars.

I think you made a heck of a good acquisition myself!

Craig; I recently traded into a DH 12/28 Damascus gun. After having it cleaned by a pro and a little repair work I have 1400 in it. I am shooting clays weekly with it and doing better than I have ever did. It did take a little experimenting with different loads and I have found one it likes. I feel the $125 for the cleaning was money well spent. It may have never been taken apart and cleaned. The top lever was very slow returning to center. My advise to others is before you start shooting a 117 year old Parker get it cleaned and lubed. I shot one for several years that looked like a screw had never been turned and then one day while shooting doves it doubled about three times and cracked the stock. We never get to old to learn do we? I traded a pistol that I had $300 in and gave $700 boot. I could have bought the DH for $1200. It was priced by the shop at $1500. I was surprised to find it where it was. This may well be my last Parker purchase. But I said that before I found this one. Of all the gun deals I have done I am happiest about this one. If I had this gun 50 years ago I would have eaten a lot more quail and doves. I traded into my first Parker a VH 12/26 about 20 years ago for about $1500 so i guess the market is down. I really enjoyed that VH also. It fit me very well also. The DH is a 1 1/2 frame at about 7 lbs. Feels great. Gerald

I wrote a $2200 check for my AHE double Trap. The seller asked whether I also wanted his prewar Pigeon Grade Superposed for $1100. I was already running for the door and don't think I really heard him. I had told him his Parker was worth several times his asking price, but all he said was "Write the check."

Bill are you have 1970's flashbacks again?

PML