George;
My fiance lost her daughter 5 years ago. There is'nt a day goes by that she does'nt think about her but she has solace in knowing that she is in peace with the Lord. Your kids just should'nt die before you but life is very cruel. My brother who died unexpectedly 7 years ago was a blow to my parents. I just lost my dad on Oct. 19th, and although he was 97 he never expected to outlive has youngest child. Carry on my friend for your daughter's sake. God bless.

Sounds like an analogous situation to the 1994 cult film, Reality Bites The film tells the story of an aspiring videographer working on a documentary called "Reality Bites" about the disenfranchised lives of her friends and roommates, a bunch of 30-somethings. Their challenges exemplify some of the career and lifestyle choices faced by Generation X.

Let me fast-forward to "Generation X plus 40 years":
Like George, some recent experiences, not all good, have involved my participation in the appraisal and attempted sale of what I perceived to be some very valuable guns in varying degrees of "high" condition and originality. Unfortunately, my perceptions were singular, based on values and conditions of what were considered very desirable firearms "back in the day". I then underwent (as a requirement of sale) two separate appraisals, 9 months apart. The results and impact are very much what like George describes; their value(s) had except in a very few cases diminished considerably, and in fact the appraisers in both cases cited "moderate to highly inflated estimates of condition and value" (bearing in mind that none of these guns had been appraised in over 30+ years).

It is indeed a bitter pill to swallow sometimes, but as the author of the fabulous book, "Objects of Desire", a seminal guide to the vagaries and intricacies of the antique trade, puts it, "If you really want to know what it's worth, send it to auction!" Caveat Consignor.

George, did they give you a value on each individual gun or a lump sum? I'm not sure I understand this situation, are you saying they wouldn't give you a copy of what value they placed on the guns? That's strange.

George
My recent experience , conversations with several dealers, and auction house results has shown me that the SxS market is definitely in the loo and someone pulled the handle. This is especially true of 12ga and even true of small ga Parkers. This too will pass but maybe not in our lifetime. In the high grade , high condition market 2 of maybe 5-6 buyers have backed away.
Best of luck
David

I agree with David. Young folks, even if they are shooters, are not interested in SxS guns. My two grandsons, both Master Class sporting clays shooters, look at my Parkers amd M21's and Fox as curiosities. Go to a gun show. The only two things which have increased at them is beef jerky sales and walkers/canes. Not what a growing (or even stable) market looks like. Enjoy your SxS's but recognize that as a class, they are not going to be increasing in value

George, I'm sorry I've come to this thread late, but I am truly sorry for your loss of your daughter. I simply do not know how empty one must feel loosing a child. The holidays are the toughest time, worse if you don't know the true meaning of Christmas.
I have several friends who work for WHOI, and The Nat'l Marine Fisheries Lab in Kingston RI. I will let my good friend Jack know, as he knew anybody and everybody.
I am at the age where I too, should be thinking of thinning my collection down, but the spirit keeps moving me for "just one more".

I agree that the market has changed dramatically.However,what I am seeing in my appraisal business is that really mint collector class guns are bringing more than ever. What has changed is the mid level condition guns that people used to buy to hunt with has gone.Those were the guns that held the market up.Mr.Dallas is correct that young shooters now shoot over unders or semi autos.The double gun market is turning into a pure collector market.This is not only true for doubles,but all "claasic" guns.Winchesters,Colts,etc. are all seeing the same change.

Auction houses are usually all about optomism and selling you on their ability to get the most money for your item. Maybe they honestly felt that their apprasal was what the guns were worth. ???

As for the future of overall prices on SxSs increasing much, I think I see the "fat lady" approaching the stage.

Bill

I must agree that the SXS market is, at best, soft. I was Pres. of The Palm Beach Gun Collectors for many years. We put on our club shows at least 3 times per year in Lake Worth..and at The So. Florida Fairgrounds. We also did the Lakeland show and Tulsa for several years. With my main interest being double guns, I watched pretty closely what the prices did...in the different locations..and the slide downward has been somewhat constant. Our shows were guns/knives only...but the majority of shows allow anything that will fit on a table. It seems that the 'younger generation " all speak AR-15, etc. I sold out once, and about broke even..11 years ago..I'm replacing things again, but have no visions of profit if I were to sell again. I'll let the kids, grandkids..and as of this year..GGrandson do as they wish with the collection. I hope they enjoy everything as much as I have..jv..

One's affinity for the SxS shotgun is mostly generational. Currently, Baby Boomers. It was part of their "inheritance."

What the young have been given and relish today has plastic stocks, painted metal, big magazine capacity and video game slaughtering capability.

To borrow from two classic authors, if a man walks away from his traditions and history, he'd better replace it with "something of value."
Either that, or "inherit the wind."

They did not do either. They only told me what they would advance which was about 20% of what I needed. I overheard some of their estimates. $500-$700 for a Parker that I had valued at $3,000. I asked for a copy of their estimates but was refused.

Best Regards, George:banghead:

I think you have nailed it !! ...

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/...psyy4wgph1.jpg

Bill

George, I think you did the right thing to walk away. If they were unwilling to even give you a written estimate on each gun then there is something wrong with that, if nothing else so you would know which guns had value and which didn't. Maybe to ones that didn't have as much value you may have wanted to give to family or a friend and send the others to auction.

A recent press release says that Julia has been absorbed by Morphy Auctions in PA. I have personal experience with Morphy. And they DID provide valuations on each item.

Sadly, the final prices realized were less than I'd hoped...

When the commission is 20% or 25%, and the sale day prices are 20% less than you expected, and there is a charge for shipping, storage, etc., your $1000 gun will not make $500. It's very simple arithmetic. $1000 minus 25% equals $750. $750 minus 20% equals $600. $600 minus $50 for shipping and insurance to the auction house equals $550. Some of our members will tell you the bad news about the big charges for packing, shipping, and insurance if your gun doesn't sell. Auctions are for buyers, auctioneers, lawyers, and widows, not living gun owners who want to sell their guns.

Error in your naive arithmetic Bill...

It's $1000 - 25% = $750
then it's another 20% off that same $1000 = $550
then it's $50 for shipping = $500





.

I’m 31, In the almost 2 years since I joined, I’ve had 2 people say something about the PGCA sticker on my truck. Both were 70+ years old.

Dean and Bill, why are you deducting the shipping from the sellers proceeds? The buyer pays the shipping.
If you expected $1000, but sales were off 20%, then I’d assume it hammered at $800, from which the auctioneer takes his 25%, netting you 600. Pathetic.

I've been a member for some time and just yesterday was the first time someone mentioned my PGCA Sticker on the Back Window of my Jeep ! We had a relatively warm day and I snuck out for 18 Holes at the course and a Gentleman in the parking lot ask if this was my vehicle ,I answered yes and he replied you must be loaded if you are a Parker Collector :rotf: ,Apparently he doesn't know about the Flat Market in Double Guns !!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rotf:

All this means is it’s a buyers market.

Auctions
 

If I remember correctly, didn't one of our other members also have some sort of issue with Julia's?

This thread has just reminded me that I am really just a Parker Gun Collector In Name Only. All the guns I would like to buy, even at these depressed prices, are still beyond my financial reach.

But, that's OK -- I can still partake of The Mystique.

Eric: I was prepared to take less on some guns, the ordinary ones, hoping for a better result on the rarer ones and an overall average that I could live with. That, unfortunately, was not forthcoming as I did not know what their estimates were or how they were arriving at them. It seemed to me that the person doing the evaluating was only identifying the guns make, gauge, model, ejectors or extractors. Nothing about condition, rarity, maker, history, etc. Each evaluation took @ one minute and then his estimate. Not very professional at all in my view. For instance, I have a Parker Bros. DHE 20 gauge that I purchased from Holt's in England several years ago. It has London proofs on the barrel flats. It is in very fine original condition with an initial plate bearing the name "S.D. McGraw" and the number "2" The Parker letter gives it's manufacture date in 1925 but has no detailed information as to who ordered it or where the factory shipped it to. I was hoping that a competent auction house would be willing to do some further research on it and find out who it was made for (there was a major league baseball manager with the name McGraw around that time) I overheard their estimate of around $2,500. I thought that they were looking at the wrong gun. I guess that I must find a more competent outlet to sell my collection.

Best Regards, George

George, Tug McGraw's Christian name was Frank. I was thinking it might have been McGraw-Hill Publishing, but found that S.D. McGraw was a Partner in the Securities firm of Allen, McGraw & Co. who were listed brokers on the Chicago Stock exchange. The dates match up with the period of the gun.
A DHE 20 would first need to be run over, twice, by a 20 car train before it was worth $2500. Julia's has sold many 20ga. DHE guns in the past couple years, between $8k range to over $17,000. Maybe I should sell all of mine and buy a pontoon boat.

I totally agree Edgar...............:corn:

Edgar, the figures you were asking about would be the charges for getting the collection (or individual guns) to the auction house. I am waiting for someone to link the thread about one of our member's experience in getting his guns back after not being sold. I won't mention his name.

I'm familiar with George's DHE, I bid on that gun too. It's a gorgeous DHE, 30", straight stock with a long LOP and checkered butt. It's a cool job for sure, I would guess it'll bring a premium at the right auction.

The best way to get the maximum return on your guns is to sell them yourself.Take good photos,write an accurate description,price them reasonably,and put them on the internet. It is perfectly legal as long as you ship to an FFL on the buyers end.A pain and a hassle,but you will get more for your guns and no waiting for checks or returning of unsold guns.The market is so tight now that there is no room for the middlemen anymore.

More than one. I'm in the process of putting my guns in a trust with instructions on how to dispose of them and an approximate value at the time the trust is implemented. My first choices are respected dealers who will work on a consignment basis, the next is an auction and it is stipulated that under no circumstances will Julia's be considered.

George I hope you can find a moment of peace each day.

People should listen to the former VP
 

I don't know why the double-barrel market would ever go down. Did no one listen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_LEfNFMAys

I have incorporated disposition of all my firearms in my will. My grandson will get my grandfather's/Father's 16 Parker and a nice 20 Parker. The rest of my Parkers and other guns are going to a number of close friends that I shoot and hunt with. And I'm at peace with this.

If you need my contact information let me know.. Hahaha.

Sorry Kirk, dispositions are final and firm. You're a day late and dollar short as they say. LOL

George
There is an honest gun dealer in Wagum N C, Phillip Futrell at MidSouth Guns. I would give him a call if it was me. He buys collections and all my dealings with him have been good. JMHO
David

Second what David said - I dealt with Phillip for many years and was never dissatisfied, including resolution of a tense snafu involving a gun that turned out to be stolen (Phillip nor the person he bought it from before selling it to me had anything to do with that, of course). P.S. - He is in Wagram NC.

I've always had great dealings with Jaqua's in Findlay ,OH.