I’m glad to see you all are making progress on the damascus coloring process. It was too much for me. The collaboration is a great idea ... unless Russians are involved. :rotf: :shock::bigbye:

Hey Harry. I just got an old PH today that is entirely brown. Since it couldn't make matters worse, I'm going to degrease it, plug the bores, and then submerge it in a very weak muriatic acid solution to see what it does with the twist pattern underneath the crud. I've used that solution on barrel flats with a q-tip to see what it would bring out, and it could be an interesting experiment. I will post before and after shots here when I try it.

This one is a tight 1892, uncut at either end, and with a fishtail top lever. The safety hardly moves it's so gunked up.

That's a good experiment Bill. I'll be interested in the results. You will probably have to use a much less diluted solution of Muriatic acid. I tried muriatic acid years ago but I wasn't pleased with the results since it might be a bit too weak an acid to work consistently on barrels.

One thing that I always wanted to try was to boil Damascus barrels with a lot of original finish remaining but that has turned brown over time. I'd like to see if boiling them will convert the brown back to black. I believe that it should but I would like to know for sure.

I sure am interested in your experiment with muriatic acid and those brown barrels.

I think I'll try that first, but use my steam method. The exterior of the barrels are not all pitted up, but for a shooter maybe there's no need to polish them. Of course the bores are pitted, but that's a different issue.

Bill....I never polish barrels with appreciable remaining original finish, Damascus or fluid steel, unless there are large dings or rust that must be removed. I don't like removing original finish or taking out the striking marks that are on most barrels DHE and below, especially the Trojan. I just take what is there and build on it. The added finish blends perfectly and enhances the old since weak areas of finish rust more than the stronger finish portions of the barrels. The finish all comes out even in the end and the barrels look like they did when they left the factory. The old cliché "less is more" is certainly true with Parkers.

Given then opportunity I do the same, however, the Parker's I can afford are typically dented, rusted, gouged, and in need of striking and polishing. I continue to get ribbed about my "project guns", and I will someday enjoy buying one in beautiful condition. In the meantime ......

That is about how I am. I kind of enjoy bringing them back though

i would like to see the 8 ga mills gun barrels brought back to new i think it would truly take a miricle...post us some pictures of your barrels as work proceeds on them....charlie

Bill, on page 7 of this thread I posted a video link that spoke of what to dip Damascus barrels in that still have pattern. The conversation regarding the dip starts about the 12 minute mark. I can not make out what he said. If you and Tom or anyone for that matter with younger better ears could try to decipher what is said and share it we might have a short cut.
Thanks,
Harry

That's an excellent video!
It's easy for me to hear and understand him. He uses a mild sulfuric acid solution in the first tank and a mild hydrochloric acid solution in the second tank and he refers to using this method in a black & white desired finish. He does not though, give specifics of the solution regarding ph or percent.






.

Getting back into this kind of work, and on this one I elected not to take it back to white. There was a slight texture to this PH set, so I simply cleaned it up a bit with some 400 grit paper, and then started bluing and etching.

I'll weigh in ....00 steel wool ,a small stainless steel brush ( toothbrush size ) and comet on a rag or my finger tips for Damascus...weep holes are a pain in the ass but sometimes you have to deal with them ,I did have success with steam on a set of problematic bbl I made a sealed tube from 6 inch pvc ,screw on cap with a vent hole ( for those who dont like loud noises and a big mess) the other end solid capped with a rubber going to the kitchen kettle worked good but like Brian said the spots were a battle this was a rust blue job not Damascus,

great job on those bbls Bill

Thanks Chris. Steam has worked really well for me, and I don’t have space to horizontal tanks, so I’ll stick with it. For carding after etching I use 0 or 1, and small carding brushes from Brownell’s.

Amazing work!!!

looks good to me...charlie

I’m new here and have been reading all I can here and on the web as well. I’ve read Tom Flannigans work diligently, your input here, and spoke with Dale Edmonds briefly on the phone. You guys have some incredible knowledge and experience regarding Damascus so I have some questions to clear my confusion.
I’m working on a 1906 LC Smith double hammer that’s Damascus. There were some very feint indications of a pattern in small spots under bright light. I’ve polished with 400 grit and ready to use Laurel Mountain. I know every set is different so here’s my questions and thoughts.

I intend to rust, and card dry with denim twice prior to first boil. Will rusting twice prior matter?
When carding do I attempt to make the rust blend perfectly, and how much rust gets removed? Until it all disappears?
After boiling, should I let them cool prior to carding? I’ll be carding with the barrels submerged.
When removing the oxide created on the first boil, does all of it get removed or is there an even darkness left? I’m assuming that I would see some pattern beginning to emerge.
How much pressure should I apply when carding after etching with 3/o or 4/o steel wool?
I’ll be using Ferric to etch and probably the soda solution while carding.

I appreciate all input I can get for this. Oh, I will strive to get my barrels done as well as the photos in this thread! They’re beautiful. Awesome work gentlemen.
Richard

A few of comments:

1. I polish no finer than 230. The coarser grit provides a better surface for the compound to grab and the barrels will wear better than with finer grit.

2. Card with 4/0 steel wool after the boiling process. Card until all the rusting residue is removed. The barrels will be gray at first but will darken with each iteration. You don’t have to worry about carding off the bluing that is building up. It is tough and will not be diminished with 4/0 steel wool. Card until the barrels are perfectly smooth.

3. It is better to let the barrels cool because cooled barrels are easier to handle. Use clean cotton gloves while carding. Use no gloves with a rubber surface. No need to card submerged barrels. It is much better to let them dry and cool somewhat before carding. Its much easier and you can better see that all the residue is removed. Card as hard as necessary to remove the residue.

4. After the barrel etch, apply baking soda to stop the rusting process and run the barrels under the faucet and thoroughly rinse them. Then I gently card the barrels with a baking soda slurry on my fingers to get the contrast.

Thank you for responding Tom. I’ve read your articles and they’re very helpful. I’ve rusted twice already and it appears I’m on track. I will attempt the first boiling tomorrow. I did wipe loose rust powder off going the full length of the barrels with a clean cloth. For clarification, you’re saying NOT to card submerged after boiling? Will being aggressive create scratches? That’s a concern of mine as well. I also want to clarify etching. I’m under the impression that etching will help develop the contrast. Is this correct?
Richard

Hi Richard,

1. I believe you will get better results by boiling after each rust iteration. The barrels will be much easier to card after the orange oxide turns to black after boiling.

2. Don’t try to card the barrels in the boiling tank. It takes a long time to cool down and there is nothing to be gained. You can easily see the residue with dry cooled barrels. No point in making things harder than they need to be.


3. Being aggressive carding with 4/0 steel wool is a good practice after the boiled barrels are cooled after the blackening process. Card as hard as you like. You will not scratch the barrels.

4. Etching is the process used to bring out the Damascus contrast. Be very careful carding at this stage. Go easy with the baking soda slurry rubbing softly.

Tom thank you. I’m doing my third boil this evening. So far looks good, I can already see the pattern developing.�� I’ll do the first etch tomorrow. I’m thinking perhaps 10-15 seconds with 2/3 etching solution from the radio shack bottle and water up to about 35” in my tube. Please correct me if I’m on the wrong path with that. If I can figure out posting pictures I’ll post some. It’s telling me to copy a URL location but I thought I could just attach pics.
Richard

I always use a plastic tank to etch so I can watch what is happening and remove the barrels at the appropriate time. Over etching will actually diminish the contrast. I use a 50/50 etch to water solution and carefully watch what is happening to the barrels, removing them at the appropriate time. Each barrel is different, but my etch times are generally 10 seconds or less.

Tom here’s my first etch. Looks like I’m on the right path.

Pardon, but what is (C-26 (X-8) the rusting solution? I have used the laurel mtn browner which worked ok but found that it was very fussy with regard to overlaping strokes and wouldnt tolerate recoating without forming the cuprous oxide which then got in the way of subsequent rust.

very nice!!

C-26 is a rusting solution formula listed in R H Angier’s book Firearm Bluing and Browning. Also known as “Birmingham Brown for Twist”. Oscar Gaddy modified the formula, because one of the ingredients, Sweet Spirits of Nitre, was banned by the FDA after several children died and is no longer available. It was used as a cold sore treatment and fever reducer. It’s function in the formula was to speed evaporation to eliminate runs, so Gaddy substituted ethyl alcohol.
C-26 recipe calls for 50 grams of mercuric chloride. Keep in mind that 2 grams of mercuric chloride can be fatal. Take precautions if you decide to use it. Never dry card without wearing a respirator, or you will inhale it. It also causes insanity. It was used in the making of beaver fur top hats, and was the reason the phrase “Mad as a Hatter” came about. Mercuric chloride must be disposed properly. It is devastating to any aquatic environment. You can’t just flush it down the sink. Kolar was using it in their bluing process and the EPA traced it from the waste water treatment plant back to them and the fine was considerable. Art’s (Herter’s) Belgian Blue also contains Hg2Cl2

Thank you for the informative reply.

Enjoying some better outcomes with black and white lately. Switched my process and gear around a little bit. This is from an 1874 lifter.

That’s a really nice contrast Bill!





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Thank you, Dean. Thankfully, I’m still able to avoid using logwood.

Those are beautiful Bill! As someone new to doing these, would you explain to me why these look ‘white’ when they’re actually steel? Or is the contrast just so great that it appears white? The LC Smith’s I’m finishing up are black and a matte silver color as they were manufactured, but I’d like to learn everything I can about this process. I’ve enjoyed doing these and may look to do more.

The pattern (either ‘browning’ or ‘black & white’) seen in damascus barrels is related to the different rate of oxidation of the very low carbon steel (rapidly rusting and black) vs. the corrosion resistant wrought iron (white) when exposed to a mild acidic solution.

Drew I appreciate and have read all I’ve found on your posts here, on other forums, and anything you’ve provided links for regarding Damascus. I completely understand your response here. Thank you.

Bill,
After some eight years of down time, I've a few sets of barrels to finish. I've switched to Laurel Mountain Forge Brown and Degreaser. Do you dilute it? Do you do a light etching with either Ferric Chloride or Sulphuric Acid? How about Logwood Boil and Ferrous Sulfate and Potassium Hydroxide? I was going to etch until I get the color I want then boil in distilled water. What has been your script to a good black white finish.
Thanks,
Harry