Hey Cowboy Bob I didn't mean no disrespect toward Denists and I hope you wern't trying to make me look bad cus I might have to hunt you down pull that hat down round your ears. ch

These bans and all the other "regulations" that are being dumped quietly on us by the ton by Federal Agencies are administrative laws which are outside of the civil legal system. If someone break one of the rules one finds himself in front of an Administrative Judge who has been appointed and has an agenda to uphold Administrative Laws. In other words a kangaroo court where you are guilty because you are there. The Obama administration has put the creation of Administrative rules in hyper drive. If you want to really be scared look into this matter and you will discover that congress is really letting us down by not stopping these abuses of power. David

Spot on David. Current BATFE 'regs' fall in the same category. It's scary. They're all 70 yrs too late; back then they could have emigrated to Germany and joined G Soros in helping Adolph out.

How long ago was lead banned for waterfowl? I'm more concerned about the number of young people taking up shooting sports than I am with relatively obscure administrative regulations.

Jay, You will be surprised when you can no longer shoot on public land? This is all part of the plan to prevent us from having and enjoying sport and guns. It is not a secret in Washington. Liberals in government employ are simply chipping away at us until they succeed. The only way to fight them is to make congress force the agencies of the government to stop making all these rules. David

You've not been able to fire a lead shot cartridge on a lot of the public lands in Illinois for a long time. Pretty well since the ban on lead shot for waterfowl as most of them are waterfowl refuges. This new rule is a real threat as it takes off of those areas and puts it nationwide even in a limited way. It is the anti folks working through government agencies and supporting it all with their huge backup of funds. If you'd do a little research I'm sure you'd find that this ABC organization is the same as PETA or any of the other names for the folks who are fighting to take all this away from us.


Destry

Sanity prevailed in Wyoming when I lived there in the mid-late 80's. In that State lead was allowed when hunting over dry land or moving water, i.e., rivers, since the liklihood of waterfowl ingesting lead was nil to non-existent. Eventually, however, the argument switched from waterfowl ingestion of lead to eagle ingestion of ducks carrying lead shot in their bodies. Even Wyoming lost that battle.
I have heard some conservation minded hunters defend this decision and similarly defend the banning of lead rifle bullets.
I never have nor will I ever support such nonsense. Destry is exactly right in that many who's objective is to ban hunting altogether are happy to use lead bans as a surrogate or at least a foot in the door.
Wouldn't it be grand to know the number of eagles and other top predators, as well as waterfowl, effected by now-banned pesticides as compared to lead. Do we support the continiued use of such products by importing many of our fruits and vegetables from other countries? Not much different than the evriros working to ban timber harvest on public lands while we continue to buy the same from our northern neighbors. It's called exporting your conscience and its maddening. We have the best technology in the world but some people prefer that we not use it.

Maybe they will outlaw weed control products , as they are a major player in the loss of habitat. No habitat no birds.

I take no pleasure in being contrary. My civil liberties credentials are as good as most. I'm liberal on some issues, conservative on others, so don't brand me. I have participated in the shooting sports at provincial, national and international levels. I have a modest income as freelancer and will work until I drop. Non-tox is no hardship for me waterfowling nor would it be for upland; my priorities are clear for my sport.

But that's me, what about others? The fact that some members regularly attend shoots and shows over the broad expanses of our countries and shoot more in a week than I would in years evinces the notion that the emotional and financial injury of looming lead bans in hunting and fishing will be accommodated in the same way we've muddled through in the past. Guys who can afford better than steel puzzle me.

It's not that I'll really mind paying the extra money, I'm mostly a waterfowler and do it anyway. It's just the principle of the thing that bothers me. They're not out to do what they say they're doing. It's all means to an end and the end is doing away with the one thing we all care the most about.

Destry