BPI uses a computer to figure their loads. Real world sometimes don't get it. The guys over on the reloading forum at shotgunworld.com bad mouth BPI loads quite often.

No offense to Mr. Harm, but I don't know what "bad mouth" amounts to.

However, I do know what "legal liability" is. And any business/company that publishes loads like BPI does is legally liable for their safety, if not their "fill factor." The critical dudes on some website are immune from any such risk.

Of course, many of them are true experts...

Kensal, I believe " bad mouth " pretty much means what it says - they talk badly of BPI loads. I can't remember now, but in the past some data from the Lyman manual has also been shown to be incorrect. They actually show a published load and why it's incorrect and possibly dangerous. The critical dudes are only showing what loads should be avoided. They're doing reloaders like us a service. Sorry if that upsets you.

I'm not upset.

But I personally prefer to get my loading data from verifiable sources.

I have found BPI’s information useful, but only as a guide. I think it would be foolish to implicitly rely on anyone’s data as a starting point. I don’t care how basic or exotic your equipment is, there is no machine which will drop precisely the same charge a ‘chart’ or ‘manual’ states it to deliver. If I use data from anyone, BPI, or the guy next door, I think it’s only good common sense to start out low, and work up to it..
On the topic of case filling, it seems people often loose sight of what patterns well, as opposed to what looks good once the crimp is folded. Sticking some foreign material in to get the column to a proper height for crimping seems like a good idea, only if you have verified the charge looks good on the pattern board..
I have countless bags of wads under my bench that may never get used, but I had to buy them in order to find the one that works in all departments.
Sure would seem like a nice gesture to the loading community, if Precision, BPI and others would sell samples, in smaller quantities.

that would be great if they would-

like you i have bags of 200+ wads that are going to see me out- but i hate to get rid of them because - of course then i would need them. its like fly tying- every time you see a new pattern you find you need some different feather/hackle/floss :)

maybe i will throw a few in sandwich bags, label them and bring them to the few events I attend - folks that want to try them can, if we all bring a few - it might work out

Years ago, Claybuster sent me a small bag (25?) of their then new 16 ga. 1 oz. wads... no charge to try. I just phoned and asked if I could try them. Turns out, they didn't work as well with my load as Downrange wads... but that wasn't Claybuster's fault.

Another point I wanted to make, but, as is more often the case, forgot, is that if you have a charge, wad, and shot load that you like, but comes up low, in most cases there is no harm in trimming the case to a height that gives you the crimp you like. It's not a lot different than trimming a plastic case when you're using an overshot card, and finishing it off with a nice roll crimp.

I wasn't trying to say to get reloading data from internet users, but that sometimes published data is wrong and internet reloading forums bring up this point. Those of us who reload the " short ten " regularly use 16ga filler wads under the shot. It works quite well. I have in the past loaded roll crimped 12ga shells and normally pitch em after they're shot because I find trying to straighten out the plastic shell is trouble and usually doesn't work all that well. Those who do it more often may have better luck at it than me. It's one reason I don't roll crimp 10ga shells - they cost too much. Unless they've been cut a couple of times and are getting short. Then it's roll crimp for one last reload. My last ones were only 2" long.

Paul, my paper Chedite hulls never look as nice the 2nd time around, but they don't get worse on the third, though I rarely use them 3 times.
I use both new, and once fired hulls for roll crimping, and once fire plastic gets trimmed to 2 1/2" first. I know precisely what you mean about the fired hull, being deformed by the heat, but made a friction taper, pretty much the same as BPI's and it puts them back into shape quickly.