Jerry, please understand that Bruce and Bill are interested in furthering your "Parker education" and not intentionally beating you up but simply trying to understand where you are in terms of various aspects of guns and their respective loads. :coffee:

Hey Jerry,

As Bruce advised, please read the section on Proofing Barrels starting on Page 514, Volume II of the Parker Story. The chart on page 515 sums up the information. The section tells how good a job that Parker did in proofing ALL barrels.

But, just because a Parker's barrels can handle 12,000 PSI doesn't mean the 110+ year old stock can withstand a few boxes of 1&1/2 oz turkey loads. Please remember that:
- High pressure will wreck barrels and actions
- High recoil comprised of the total weight of shot, wad, and power (somebody correct me if I let anything out) will wreck old stocks (especially our favorite Elsie sidelocks)

So, shoot lower pressure loads (-8500 PSI) for day-to-day practice.
If your barrels haven't been reamed too thin then they should be fine for an appropriate load for the barrels.
For me, I would not shoot as heavy a load in a #1 Frame 12 gauge as I would in a #3 Frame gun. The barrels of a heavier frame gun should be thicker than those of a lighter frame gun.

Respectfully,
Mark

OK, I see now what's going on with this. I went back to the Parker book(s) and read all I could on the proofing. Wonder if other gun companies went to this much bother? Is anyone shooting L.C. Smith guns the same way? This certainly sheds a new light on some of these old guns that were considered wall hangers. I have a very early L.C. Smith gun that is nearly new in every respect. I cannot for the life of me figure out how it survived but it did and it's in pristine condition. I've always wanted to kill a spring gobbler with the gun. Hammer gun, Syracuse, 10 gauge, Quality 5 at least if not higher. It's not marked as to grade in any respect. I've owned over 500 L.C. Smith guns down through the years and I can say this one is about as good as the work is gonna get. The barrels weigh nine million pounds! I can't imagine after what I've read that light loads would hurt this gun. Thanks all, Jerry

Hey Jerry,

I short while back I believe it was Drew House who posted an LC Smith add claiming the Smith Guns could withstand any NITRO shells. I think the date was pre-1920.

I searched for the post with the add but came up short. Drew if you are reading this could you comment?

PS: I would trust my LC Smith Chain Damascus barrels as I would those Parker barrels of the same thickness.

Also, I have a Elsie "part gun" with good Chain barrels (missing half the bottom rib) and action. I have thought of doing my own Sherman Bell type test. Maybe open the forcing cones enough to accept 3&1/2" shells / 14,000 PSI. I do however hate to ruin those barrels...

Mark

LTC Calvin Goddard writing in Army Ordnance in 1934, stated that Hunter Arms proof tested 12ga 2 3/4" chamber barrels at 14,300 psi.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../386195959.jpg

Hunter Arms started using this slogan in the late 1890s

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../279125989.jpg

I shoot ducks with a 12ga 2 frame Bernard that has 6 1/2lb, thick, barrels and weighs 9 lbs. Don't like to carry the gun very far, its built like a tank, but it will really blast out the 1 1/4 oz , 3 1/2dram loads. Its more solid to shoot with heavy loads than a Mod 21. Then I also have another 12ga 2 frame 30" Bernard with severely contoured thinner barrels that weighs 7 1/2lbs. It likes 1 1/8oz, 3 dram loads or less. Both guns were proofed to the same standard but each gun is different on what feels best with it.

I shoot factory loads through each but choose the loads.

Lets take an example of a factory "pheasant load", say its a 12ga 2 3/4" Fed premium Black Cloud at 1 3/8oz at 1375fps. As near I can figure looking at load tables, that thing generates 11,000psi, and I don't know what in recoil. Some folks are shooting those out of Parkers. If its an older Parker, damascus or fluid with 2 5/8" chambers, then the gun was proofed at 13,700 with service load average at 9500. If a late Parker with 2 3/4" chambers then it was proofed at 15,900 for a service load average of 10,500. Safe, probably, but over the service load averages and hard on the gun and shoulder. I sure killed a lot of wild SoDak and Kansas birds last season with a 16ga loaded with 1 oz 2 1/2 dram Fed Game loads.

Jerry, If you go to Pintail Point this week-end you will see many damascus barrels in action. I will be shooting a 1975 10 ga Parker in the Black Powder event but I also shoot nitro in that gun. David

My heaviest bbl'd gun is an 1883 twist bbl 0-grade 12ga hammer gun with 32" bbls. I feel safe shooting just about anything within reason through it, that being any factory 2-3/4" 12ga shell of 1-1/4oz or less. I've shot quite a few old 3-3/4dram 1-1/4oz loads through it with no issues, and I do check it after every session with those shells.

Jerry, I took this double this year with my 1890 twist 10 ga. Hand load of 1 1/2 oz. copper coated #4

Whose copper coated #4s are they? Did you pattern test them to compare them with any other #4 shot? I patterned some soft #4s in a heavily choked Fox a couple of years ago and they about tore the paper out of the frame at 60 yards.