I can still shoot after a hard night with or with out horizontal eyes:corn: I remember a particular day at the U.P. shoot:whistle:

Yeah but you gotta shoot light loads or your ol' noggin takes a pounding :rotf:

Shot with one of my LC Smith 12 Field Grades today, so did not need RST shells. It reminded me how much easier RST shells are compared to regular shot.

My dad loads 20 gauge shells with 28 gauge loads and puts a Cheerio on top of the shot. It hardly kicks at all :rotf: there's only 50 less feet per second.

I load 3/4oz. (28ga load) in my 20ga loads now using the new Claybuster 3/4oz wad and 20/28 Alliant powder. A real winner.

Great target loads, we load 'em in No. 8s or 9s

All I load is 3/4oz in the 12ga. It might give too tight a pattern. We shot a round of clays Sunday and 4 out of the 5 guns on my squad were SxS's. Three were Parker lifters. Dave was shooting a Parker lifter 10 [with 10/12 Gaugemates] he just bought at Bachelders and the firing pin broke. Luckly I had an extra I made up at home. That and some Coke can shim made it tight again. He'll get it redone at Bachelders soon as Brad finishes up with a couple he has over there. At my club half or more shoot SxS's.

paul them 3/4 ounce 12 ga are doing a fine job on doves when i see one to shoot at.. and they are knocking down birds at unreal ranges 45 to 55 steps... charlie

I've read that the 3/4oz load will tighten up patterns too much at skeet ranges [ 20 yds]. There's less deformation of the last shot in the shot column so more stays round and in the pattern. We seem to break clays nice out to 35/40 yds with skeet chokes.

It seems to be more consistent, not necessarily tighter

One of the big names that writes about shotgun loads in the SC's magazines claimed at skeet ranges the patterns were too tight. He recomended just chilled shot and or fiber wads in place of plastic wads. And yes, the patterns are more consistent, or more even with less holes. In FITASC they went from 1 1/4 to 1oz of shot. Everyone complained saying the scores would go way down - they didn't - scores stayed the same. Just think - a 1/4oz less of shot and it made no difference. I know when I went from an 1 1/8 to 1oz, and then to 7/8 I kind of worried. But not anymore - I'm now at 3/4oz and hitting them the same with a lot less recoil.

I've experienced the same thing Paul. 1 1/8oz>1>7/8>3/4oz. Scores did'nt change and I'm having a blast shooting some 12ga. guns that just got neglected because I did'nt like the recoil even with 7/8oz. loads. I've also patterned my 3/4oz. load on paper and found that whether it's full choke (.030+) or skeet (.005) the patterns are uniform with no flyers. I load nothing but Lawrance Magnum shot, 6% or higher antimony. Just to illustrate the point, a few years back, they mandated the 24gram load for international bunker. That's about 1/16oz lighter than a 7/8oz. load. That is an extremely difficult game at best. They discovered that their scores actually went up, not down, due to the lack of recoil and the quick recovery for a second shot which can sometimes be at 45yds.+. Last night at our weekly Thurs. night shoot, we shot skeet, all doubles and you have to shoot them in reverse (ie: station 1- low house first and then high house.) Gives a new meaning to Sk in/ Sk out. I was using a grade2, 1frame, 32" fishtail hammer with .036 and .039 chokes. Everyone wanted to shoot it and to a man they all said " That gun really likes that load you're shooting". I don't know about the gun but I know I do. What's not to like; no recoil and low pressure. Bottom line is I think people worry way too much about chokes. The goal is to center the target and that center does'nt change size. I just happen to love shooting tight chokes and vaporizing targets. Great feedback to the old onboard computer between my ears that I do'nt get with more open chokes. But that's just me.

I think if you shoot well, you can use a much smaller payload to great effect, like shooting a small-gauge gun as opposed to a 12

You'll find with a large payload such as 1 1/8oz a lot of the shot in the bottom of the taller shot column gets deformed giving you many flyers. Yes you'll sometimes hit with a flyer, but all that's doing is giving a false indication of where the main shot pattern is. You'll shot the same again and miss wondering why. It's not that you have to be a better shooter to use a smaller payload, but a smaller payload will make you a better shooter.

I'm going to shoot clays on Thursday (sept '12) and am taking either my
Sterlingworth or Lefever I grade. My Parker is full and full the other two are F and M. What chokes do you guys recommend? I am considering shooting my GH with spreader shells since it's a F and F. Anyone out there try such a thing?

One of my favorite Parkers for clays is a 12 gauge PH with F/F chokes. I shoot the RST maxilite with it and it does extremely well

Paul;
You took the words out of my mouth. A lighter load is not only more efficient but without the recoil it enables you to stay on target for that second shot.
Steve;
My suggestion is to not worry about your chokes but shoot a gun that fits you and you'll break targets. I love shooting tight chokes and if you get that choke thing out of your mind and just concentrate on the target you will be amazed at how well you do with a full choke.

I think the low pressure and smaller shot of RST loads has a lot to do with why I shoot better with them than with higher pressure loads.

Thanks, Mills. I will take your advice. My GH #2 frame is pretty heavy and with the Maxlite loads, which I have never tried, it probably won't kick much at all.

As an aside, I've been shooting skeet/trap regularly for about two months now and usually shoot my SC at Trap and a Browning Gold Fusion at skeet, because that is the only gun I own with an open choke (screw in). The Browning has a very light receiver and I've discovered that a heavier gun is much less "whippy", especially after I tire after shooting my third or fourth round of skeet and to a lessor degree, trap.

Conclusion? A lighter gun is good if one is walking for birds, but IMO a heavier gun is best for clay bird games.

Also, becoming tired is an issue too. One would not think that one could get pooped out shooting clay birds, but I do and it shows in my scores. As I consider the question, I suppose shooting a heavier gun might make me tire quicker.....I'll have to try and see.

Steve, I have a couple of friends who shoot a "swing through" method. Now I'm not one to say what method to use be it pull away, swing through, intercept, or maintain lead; but when they tire a bit they start missing. Their timing isn't the same. A heavier gun keeps moving after the shot, a lighter gun is easier to start moving. So many things to consider - quess that's why we're not all master class shooters.

Hi Paul:

Muzzle swinging through the bird is an issue with me hitting the crossing birds when shooting skeet. I have a tendency to stop and then shoot on birds from the high house. I don't have as much trouble hitting birds from the low house, (I'm right handed.) The reason is obvious. When unwinding to place the gun before calling for the low house bird it is natural to swing back left and less so, (at least for me) to follow the bird from the high house where I have to wind up to chase the bird.

I have been shooting a very light Browning Gold Fusion and as I tire I note that it takes me longer to find the bird after its launch with this whippy gun.

It is a work in progress. I haven't received my RST shells yet, so I'll shoot my Sterlingworth this Thursday at clays. Looking forward to it. This will be my first Clays outting.

Someone here said that I should forget worrying about choke, so I'm going to follow his advice and shoot the F and M gun at clays. As soon as my RST loads arrive I'll shoot my Parker GH F and F. That will be fun!

Since I shoot my SC at trap I want to shoot my GH at clays and maybe try it with spreaders, at skeet. I'd like to be known as the "Parker Guy" at my club. Might as well. :)

Neither of my Parkers are prestine, but both are in excellent condition with shinny bores, good springs and have been cleaned out inside of all of that ancient gunk. So they are excellent shooters. No one else in the club shoots a Parker....so I'm the guy. Even if I miss, I'm at the top of the Parker heep!:rotf:

blowem out of the sky steve...shoot one for me... charlie

Will do.

I see that some of the Clays shooters don't bother to keep score. I'll probably try to do so in my head. We don't have a guy calling out "loss", etc.

My club is an excellent one, it has new equipment and dedicated members and the Clays range is new. I've watch'em shoot Clays a few times and am looking forward to trying it out. It certainly adds a new dimention to the Clay bird game. :eek:

However, live pigeon shooting must have been great shooting! Did they mount the gun when the bird took off, or before? I guess we call "pull" because they did too, to tell the guy to pull the string that opened the "trap" that held the bird.

I think they still do live pigeon shooting somewhere. Maybe in Mexico. I'm not going down there tho. Not in your life!:nono:

I don't keep score when I shoot clays of any kind.

My wife and I shoot all the time and our main rule is . . . no keeping score

Steve, really good shooters don't worry about chokes, but anyone wanting to hit more than miss might want to pay attention - at least when shooting skeet. It's a real handicap to shoot full chokes at skeet ranges. We do have bragging rights at my club and we play "skins" - buck a station. I don't like to pay too much money so most my guns are choked skeet in/skeet out [ or light mod.]. We have a pigeon ring - you can't see where the bird is going and the trap throws in a 360 degree circle. The damn thing was my idea, I put it in, and I CAN'T hit squat at it. Now that SxS has mod/ imp mod for chokes - the birds are sometimes a bit farther out. For a right hander shooting skeet - you always face the low house except station 7 and high 8. That will put you in the netural position so you can turn either way. Finding the bird really has nothing to do with the weight of the gun. Because I learned to shoot "gun down " I can look back at the house and find the bird. It's something you'll have to work out. Good luck.

I shoot low gun, and when I call for the target I don't pick up the gun till I see the target..

Chris, that's the way a lot of us at my club shoot. We also shoot International or Doubles skeet. At Doubles in the winter if both birds are hit with one shot we count it - us old guys don't like to stay out any longer than necessary. International is fun with gun down, no movement till you see the bird, and up to a 3 second time delay. The birds are also thrown differently. A high house and double on 1, 2, and 3. A low house and double on 5 and 6. Just a double on 7. On 4 a single high and low and two doubles. High first, then low first. Shoot 8 as usual. Eight is hard with low gun and a time delay. I'm getting too old for that one.

That sound like a lot of fun Paul. I try to shoot clays the way I hunt. I keep the stock under my arm till the bird takes off.

I just this minute stepped in from returning from the trap club. Warm windy day in the desert. Shot a round of skeet and clays. I brought two guns, a Remington Model 11 in 20 gauge with a Polychoke and my Fox Sterlingworth, F&M. Set the Polychoke one knotch from ImpCyl and broke 23! Which is good for me. Hit all of my doubles, so my swing was working. I'm also getting it down where to place my gun when I call for the bird. That little 20 gauge doesn't kick a bit and it balances well, being all steel. Since it is a recoil gun it jumps a little, but it doesn't bother me and I acutally like that lump out there on the muzzle. I point with it. I was pleased with my score and the little Remington has graduated to being my "Skeet Gun" for a whle.

I found clays interesting and confusing. I'm so deaf that I can't hear a thing and I wear plugs and muffs. I can hear the report of the other guys' guns, but I can't tell where the noice is coming from so I have to pay close attention so I don't miss my turn or screw up the flow. Even tho the traps were numbered and there was a schedule at each of the five firing positions, I usually wasn't sure where to look for the bird. I held the gun low to see better. One of the double stations has a bird coming directly in and high and another that shoots directly out. It took me a bit to see the incoming bird and I broke it. By the time I saw the outgoing bird it must have been fifty yards away and heading for the horizon. I took aim, moved my finger to the rear trigger and let that old Fox gun bark, and darn if I didn't break it. The other guys laughed. Must have been 70+ yds! That gun must have a very tight full choke or it maybe it was the mythical Golden BB.

The Fox hit me pretty hard. A sharp, short kick. It didn't bother me, but if I had shot more birds it would have. I think I need to have the forcing cones looked at. It is a 1929 gun. I've been shooting a lot of autos, which only give you a push, but my SC doesn't bother me a bit. I can feel that Fox as I write this.

One of the members is an old fellow, he must be 6'6. He shoots a lot of guns. He was in the skeet group I shot with. He was shooting a pristine Model 12 full choked gun. He did well with it too, pumping away. Each bird he hit, he smoked. Some of the members are constantly messing with chokes, opening a box with a dozen, removing one and screwing in another. Other guys just shoot the gun they brung at everything. I liked my Polychoked 20 gauge. I was told today, that they throw erratic patterns at the tighter chokes, but are okay with the open chokes. I don't know, but the little Remington did fine for me today.

I think that is the best way to do it. It takes time to find the bird as they are coming from all around.

ver ly in ter res ting....

I wish I could get some shells to shoot geese with my Parker...

You can. Try these great folks. This is where I buy all of my Parker ammo. They are good friends of the PGCA.

http://www.rstshells.com/

Don't worry about the forcing cones. What kind of shells you shooting ? We all reload and shoot either 7/8 or 3/4oz in the 12ga. Kept at 1200fps or less and you won't notice any recoil.

I was shooting 1oz Feochi shells. So, I was surprised when the gun gave me a hit. I also shoot these shells in a Miroku O/U and I can't feel a thing. Nor do I feel much recoil when shooting those same shells in my Parker SC. My Fox is light. It sports a Silver's pad. It gave me a sharp hit. Strange, it surprised me.

I would rather not mess with the forcing cones. I don't reload for shotshells because I buy them at my club for $6 a box. What does it cost to reload them?

I'm going to try RST 2.5 inch 1 oz loads and see what happens. Trouble is they are more expensive by about twice than the shells I buy at the club.

However, the Fox Sterlingworth is a very nice gun! It is light, looks nearly new, has a neat ivory bead, fits me pretty well and doesn't have ejectors which I like. I just pluck out the empty and toss it into the box or my pouch.

I may try my I grade Lefever. But I'm seriously looking forward to shooting my GH.

As for breaking clays at five stand? It is a witch with a capitol B. Actually I think I like sheet and trap better, but I'll keep doing it, of course.

I want a Parker that is like my Fox gun. Maybe a Trojan. I'd like a 16. No real reason, I just like being different.

I'm healthy and am going to live here the rest of my life and my trap club is wonderful. I am shooting a lot and you know what? It makes life worth living.:bigbye:

Do you mind telling me a bit more about your reloading? Do you think that you do okay with only 3/4 oz loads?

The thought of reloading paper shells with a roll crimp with felt wads sounds attractive to me. You know, like the old days.

As a matter of fact I'd love to shoot brass shells loaded with BP in my GH. Just for grins.

Under 4$ a box if you buy in quantity and at dealer prices [ our club puts in a order from a wholesaler]. Even at higher prices, if you reload you can tailor your loads to what you want. www.circlefly.com sells felt and fiber wads. www.precisionreloading.com sells good metal roll crimpers- think they're on sale this month. Claybusterwads and Downrange sell 16 gauge wads - and you'll want to reload for 16ga- they're too expensive to buy. Buy a used Mec 600jr to get started reloading. Our reloading forum is helpfull. www.shotgunworld.com also has a very helpfull reloading forum. Alliant and Hodgdon powder companies have web sites for reloading data. For a year or two with myself, wife, daughter, and granddaughter all shooting, I was reloading about 30 boxes a week. Now it's just me and the wife shooting between 16 and 20 boxes a week. I sure couldn't afford it on retirement money. Plus, as I said, I can put togeather the loads I like without having to shop for special loads or pay the high price. I've made 2" to 3" shells, roll or fold crimp, light target to hunting loads, paper wads or plastic, nitro or blackpowder, 10ga to 28ga all right in the basement. Maybe a friend who reloads can help. Have at it, it's fun shooting with loads you made yourself.

I am impressed! I'm going to study shotshell reloading. I reload for rifle/pistol and have for fifty years.

My wife used to be a wonderful shotgun shot, but she stopped shooting about 20 years ago and I'm concerned about her retinas if she takes it up again. She is nearly blind. She loves to shoot tho and we enjoy shooting pine cones with .22s. We are death on pine cones.

I shoot about 20 boxes a month. I'm going to look into it. I'll buy a new 600 Mech if I decide to reload.

steve just dont decide go for it...reloading is not just about saving a buck its the inner reward thats worth it...you know that feelin you get with reloading a rifle shell and gettin a big buck with well that feelin comes with loading shotgun shells and just shootin tin cans or maybe a pine cone.. charlie