Thanks all for your kind comments. :)

Daryl, yep I too have been chasing 32" smallbore Foxes forever, without any luck. I slobber all over a friend's 32"/20 gauge Sterlingworth every time I'm in his gun room. I shot it on a sporting course a few times - and that's not helping any. Sounds like you had a good time at the UP shoot. I just couldn't make it this year but Mark's pictures made me feel like I'd been there. Good deal on your 16 Sterlingworth find. A little more cash paid for a nice gun, reverses in the long run when you're handing, shooting and hunting with her. But I'm sure all us in the choir know that. Can you make the Hidden Hollow & Rock Mtn S x S Challenge on August 18-19? If so maybe we can shoot together = warmup of sorts for the AHF Championship at the VC. Frank

[QUOTE=undecided about the "botched" rib. The VH has a certain history (either way)

Tony[/QUOTE]

Tony, well one thing is for sure, if those areas are not low, then they are original. We may never know what caused it, and it is good for conversation. If you decide to leave as is, it is for good reason. Just another unanswered question.

If you decide to have the gun restored, let us know how it comes out. We would all love to see it.

Frank,
I had not heard of this August shoot. Is it new or is it an annual event?

Annual shoot over two courses a few miles apart. Ernie's site should explain the particulars. hiddenhollowsportingclays.com

Bill is correct on the annual shoot. See Events tab on Ernie's website which is here:

http://www.hhhsc.net/

In the past it's been 100 birds each at Hidden Hollow and at Rock Mountain Sporting Clays, both in northeastern PA. Rock Mtn. is hosting this year's PA SC Championship held over 4 days in July. (The Side by Side combo shoot is August 18 & 19. Or, I should say the 18th OR the 19th.) You can shoot both courses in one day and in fact, that's what many shooters do. The two clubs are about 20 minutes or so apart. Mike, who along with his wife Susan are owners of Rock Mtn, is a SxS shooter himself and he sets great targets. I hope this is helpful. Frank

Link to the Rock Mountain website is here:

http://www.rockmountainclays.com/index.html

A wonderful day or days out with the SxS's and our friends. What could be nicer? Frank

Curious what a 90% condition, 20 ga., VHE, straight stock, Silvers Pad, #1-frame, 32" barrels and 3' chambers would be worth if it lettered that way?

Frank,
A 32" 20ga Sterly! Heart please be still. I bet she is sweet. Does anyone know how many 32" 16's and 20's were produced? I picked up a 20 at the UP shoot not a 16. Already have a couple 16's. This is my first 20 Fox. This shoot sounds like fun so I might be in touch to plan a trip. Ernie's is only 4 hrs. from here- a piece of cake compared to the UP trip. If you say It's worth the trip I trust you. Any one else interested? Larry, Dave, Dean, or any of the other Hollow Boys. Could be a fun weekend.

Daryl, Last year Jent ,JD,and I shot the Hollow/Rock Mt. Challenge, we had a great time. You've shot the hollow so you know what thats about,the Rock is just as much fun/challenging. We shot the Hollow on Sat. and the Rock on Sunday. It's worth the trip.:)

Daryl, sorry about the 20 and 16 mixup on the Sterlingworth you snagged at the UP Shoot. My eyes saw 20 and my fingers typed 16; must be something lurking in my subconscious. :rolleyes: Sorry to say there is no number or % on the occurance of 32-inch smallbore Steringworths. No one has ever copied/analyzed the production cards for Sterlingworths which would be a massive task, even just for the smallbores. Suffice to say that reports by those of us who have been Fox nuts for years, are that they are very very rare. The 20 gauge 32-incher I referred to earlier is owned by a friend who is well known amongst Parker and Fox people and I can ask him to bring it to the Hidden Hollow/Rock Mtn SxS Combo shoot, for check out by those who might want to look at it. It isn't for sale, or at least it wasn't the mucho times I asked in the past.

I'll add here that I spoke with Ernie yesterday and he confirmed that the SxS Combo can be done in one or two days, shooter's choice. He did say many folks do it over two days for a longer time in the summer weather and settings, and with SxS friends. Those who've shot Hidden Hollow before know that a good part of the course is set for quick grouse type targets, Ernie's specialty. Rock Mountain is more of a conventional sporting clays course and Mike sets really good targets that aren't eye tests. As I mentioned previously Rock Mtn is hosting the PA State SC Championships on July 12 thru 15. Mike told me on Sunday that he bought 50 brand new Lincolns in prep for the State Shoot, to supplement his older traps. He's also put in a brand new sub-gauge course.

Hopefully you, Bob and others can make the shoot either for one day, or both. I typically shoot both courses on one day but it wouldn't take much to bend my arm to a two day/twice through gig. I can also offer up a seat and the back of my shooting rig for carrying guns and ammo. Frank

I just noted it on my calendar. If nothing else comes up between now and then I will likely be there. While shooting clays with Dave S. this weekend he expressed an interest in attending as well.

I'll probably leave the 3 "missed" areas alone - it is unique
I'll get the gun restored
Does anyone have a VH stock for sale? - 16 or 20 or 12 would work
mine is a #1 frame gun
Tony

Was a VH grade Parker ever available with a teardrop stock? even as a special order?
thanks Tony

Not as standard. Who knows if it was ever a special order option. Anything could have been done I suppose.

The 3-inch Magnum 20-gauge was a 1950s item. I think the first commercial listing was the Magnum Model 21 in the January 2, 1954, Winchester catalogue. However, there are no 3-inch 20-gauge shells listed in the January 2, 1954, Winchester Ammunition catalogue and price list!?! The Olin brothers and their buddies had been playing around with 3-inch 20-gauge Model 21s for some time before that. In the 1955 Winchester ammunition catalogue the 20-gauge 3-inch Mag. is offered with 1 1/8 ounce of Lubaloy #6 or 1 3/16 ounce of Lubaloy #4. That same year the 2 3/4 inch "magnum" shells were introduced with the 1 1/2 ounce in 12-gauge, 1 1/4 ounce in 16-gauge and 1 1/8 ounce in 20-gauge. The 3-inch 20-gauge Mag. offerings remained the same throught the 1959 price list. For 1960 the 3-inch 20-gauge magnum with 1 1/4 ounce of chilled shot was added to the offereings, while the Lubaloy loads were still 1 1/8 and 1 3/16. The Winchester/Western offerings in 3-inch 20-gauge shells remained the same thru 1968 where my old catalogues play out.

Three-inch shells have been around just about as long as cartridge shotguns have been around. In my 1903 UMC catalogue there were 12-gauge paper shells 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch. The 16-gauge was available 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. The 20-gauge was offered in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. In those days the "standard" 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge, 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge and 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells carried a slightly milder maximum load than the 2 3/4 inch and longer shells. The advantage of the 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch shells was more and better wadding for a better gas seal which many serious Pigeon shooters thought to be an advantage. The heaviest loads offered in the 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells were 2 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder pushing 7/8 ounce of shot, or 18 grains of Ballistite or Infallible dense smokeless powder pushing the same 7/8 ounce of shot. In the 2 3/4 inch 20-gauge case, one could get 2 1/2 drams bulk smokeless powder or 20 grains of Infallible or Ballistite dense smokeless powder, but still pushing 7/8 ounce of shot. The 3-inch 20-gauge for the famous Widgeon Duck Club Parker Bros. guns and the J. Stevens A & T Co. pump gun carried these 7/8 ounce loads, but more wadding.

These are the shells a Parker Bros. 20-gauge chambered for 3-inch shells with serial number 131424 would have been made for --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...m-UMCArrow.jpg

Same load in a 2 7/8 inch shell --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Arrow27801.jpg

And, the same load from Peters Cartridge Co. --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ch20-gauge.jpg

When Western Cartridge Co. showed the way to high velocity by introducing progressive burning smokeless powder loads as their new Super-X load about 1922, the 1 1/4 ounce 12- and the 1 ounce 20-gauge Super-X loads were put up in their 2 3/4 inch Field shell. It doesn't appear from my research that Winchester, Western or Remington offered their progressive burning powder 20-gauge shells in longer cases, but in the 1920s and 30s Peters Cartridge Co. did --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...yloads1927.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...auge3-inch.jpg

Let me try to explain where I am going with my question about the "teardrop" stock
I have a DHE 20 gauge stock that was made for me. It has a skelton cut out on the butt and the tear drop mon the sides. I did not use it. The man that made it died. I was wondering if I could use it on the VH. The stock on the VH now is not original and it is ugly.

Up to you but it wouldn't be close to right. A 1-frame V-grade stock shouldn't be terribly difficult to find and you might be able to sell the D-grade stock, pay for the V-grade and get it fitted with little out of pocket.

You can always have that D grade stock fitted to your V grade and have the drop points removed as well as the SSBP. That is if you want it to be correct. But I think that stock is worth more as it is as being for a D grade.

Anthony,

Most Parker collectors appreciate original guns followed by Parkers restored to as original. Your 32" VH 20 gauge is very rare and is worth very much to collectors who will pay in hundred dollar bills! Any money spent on upgrading it with a D Grade stock will be wasted because anyone willing to pay cash for a grand gun as you have will immediately pay to have an original VH stock fitted to it. Of course, the DH stock will lower the sale price.

I, like many here, learned the above the hard way. Keep your 32" VH 20 gauge as orignial as possible. If you do so when you or your heirs sell the gun to a humble collector, it will be done so at a profit rather than a loss.

Respectfully,
Mark

i really like the old shell posters and boxes...these are items of a grand long gone era...wish they would put a little more interesting logos on the boxes we buy now... charlie

I agree, Mark. Now all I need is an original VH stock!
who has one for sale?
thanks - Tony

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recently found a VH 20 gauge with 32 inch barrels on a # 1 frame.
The number is 131424. (from 1st page of thread)
thanks, Mark
Tony

Tony ck your PM's

done