Tom - Where do you fish? Ever get to the Au Sable in Michigan?

I have fished across the country from coastal cutthroats in Oregon to Atlantic salmon on the Miramichi in New Brunswick in Canada. I take three trips a year to Colorado, Montana and Wyoming. My favorite trips are to the Rockies in Colorado. I spend five days alone hiking and fishing alpine lakes above12,000 feet for the beautiful greenback cutthroat trout, once listed as an extinct species.

I navigate with a topo and navigational compass. I plot my route using National Geographic software and print out my coordinates using waterproof paper.

There is nothing better than fishing solo for the greenbacks with the nearest human being about 10 miles away. I am addicted to the high peaks, greenbacks and the many mountain sheep I see each day. They rarely if ever see a human and don't mind your presence unless you try to get too close to them. During the rut, I have taken pictures of rams fighting. Its an awesome experience.

My home river in the West is the North Platte in Wyoming and in the east the Housatonic which is 20 minutes from my Pawling NY home. I have never, unfortunately, fished the Au Sable, a classic and storied trout river. Some day I hope to fish that historic river.

Tom, have you read any of John Gierach's fly fishing stories? I'm reading his "Death, Taxes and Leaky Waders" right now. Good stories. He lives in Colorado I think and fishes there a lot and shoots a Parker, at least for doves.

Tom, I have spent many a day fishing the Housy. Love that river....

Yeah, Gierach shoots a Parker. I've told this story here before but I like him and his style so I'll tell it again.

He drove into a smallish but boutique-ish Colorado town and pulled up to the curb in his old truck. He got out and began walking toward a store when a young woman confronted him saying that she wasn't comfortable with that shotgun in the back window of his truck. He turned to face her and in his no-nonsense style said "That's no shotgun lady - that's a Parker." And he turned around and went into the store.





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Tom, that looks like a caddis pupa imitation stuck in that greenback's dorsal fin....





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I've met John Gierach a few times. He is a friend of my close fly fishing buddy who lives in Estes Park, Colorado, John's stomping grounds. John has given me some his books inscribed to me and talked about getting together with our cane rods and fishing the Big Thompson river, a favorite of his and mine.

I stay at my buddies house when I do my high peak trips. I usually fish a couple of days with him on private water to acclimate to the altitude. Then I'm off for five days on the high peaks and fish one day with him when I return.

Acclimating a couple of days helps, but I always get altitude sickness when I climb to about 10K feet. When I cramp up and start to ejection vomit, I lay down where I am and sleep to the next day. I'm too sick to put up my little one man tent. I'm better after a nights sleep and then can continue my trek. I takes me three days at altitude before I feel normal.

Dean, you have an amazing eye for detail but its not a caddis pupa. Insects do not live above the tree line. But the winged insects get brought up to altitude on the thermals from below and this is what the greenbacks feed on. They cruise close the bank picking off the insects.

You fish for them by standing in one spot and then casting ahead of them when they swim by. You never have long to wait since the greenbacks are very plentiful in the few alpine lakes where they still exist. Virtually any dry fly will work. They don't spook when they see you but they scatter quickly if you put a line over them. They have only about three months to feed before ice in so they are not selective at all and will rise to any well placed fly.

I take no food with me and limit my backpack to 30 pounds. Every ounce matters when you are climbing to altitude. I eat brook trout that I catch at lower altitudes and bring five days worth to altitude with me. I don't like killing them but I have no choice. For a green, I boil the leaves from the green clasping leaved twisted stalk plant. It is wonderful eating and tastes like a cross between swiss chard and cucumber. I eat well.

Here is a brookie from one of my lower altitude beaver ponds. They are beautiful and incredibly plentiful.

The picture didn't upload so I'll try again and also include a picture of a greenback from an outflow creek. The creek greenbacks are much smaller but they are especially beautiful.

I've got to go to my Prosek book on trout to see how he paints the greenback. The one in your picture has a tail more like an adult "square tail" salvelinus fontinalis than other cutthroats and rainbows of the Western Slope that I have seen... Interesting... but I'm not questioning your identification of that greenback cutthroat.





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I don't know if Prosek has actually trekked to their environs and painted from a real greenback rather than his impression of what they look like.

That is a greenback for sure Dean. They only exist in about a 20 square mile area of the Colorado Rockies and above about 12K feet. There are no other trout existing in these environs..

I know cutthroats intimately. I have been on a quest to catch all of the remaining cutthroat sub-species that still exist. I only fish for them in their native drainages and each fish has to be a true aboriginal wild fish. I have five subspecies to my credit and only need the lahontan and Bonneville to complete the slam. I plan to add them this year.

It is interesting to note that each separate greenback alpine lake has its own color scheme on the trout. They look a bit different depending on which alpine lake they come from. Creek fish look different also.

The greenback male spawning color is almost red and is spectacular. I'll have to scale down some pictures and post them for you.

Actually James Prosek is a fantastic painter of fish and in his book "Trout, An Illustrated History" and in fact, even the cover illustration is the Greenback Cutthroat Trout. I was not questioning your identification of the fish in your photo - it is unquestionably as you describe, a Greenback Cutthroat.

I do see however that Prosek paints his with slightly rounded upper and lower 'corners' of the caudal fin where in your real life photo they appear to be sharp corners... probably due to finning in the water. Also worthy of note is that they in fact do not have a forked caudal but have a very shallow V and almost square across.


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Dean, forgive me please. I am not trying to disagree, but the greenback is my favorite trout and I am very partial to it and the incredibly beautiful area it inhabits. I’m sorry to say this but I have never ever seen a greenback trout that looks anything like that painting. Even though greenback coloration differs a bit from creek to creek or alpine lake to alpine lake, that painting does not look like any of them.

The tail is all wrong. Greenbacks have a square tail. The colors on the side of the fish are all wrong. Greenbacks are not that color green but rather a light copperish tan color to a more cream color. And all have a faint pinkish to red line from tail to gills. Not as pronounced as the rainbow but there nevertheless.

The multi-color fins are laughable and the spots are all wrong. Except for the tail area, greenback spots are above the lateral line and much less profuse than in the picture. In fact, most have very few spots other than the cluster of spots in the tail area.

Greenback is a misnomer. The trout has no true green on it, although many are of an olive sort of color but it is always light. I don’t know how greenbacks got that name.

That is an impressionistic rendition and bears no resemblance to a true greenback. That picture reminds me of Partker’s flying turnips. It’s that bad.

I shouldn’t care about incorrect renditions but I do because it does tend to confuse people. If someone paints a greenback trout, it should be from life and an accurate representation of nature. The problem is that few care to endure the pain of climbing to high altitudes. Few have ever seen or caught one.

I trek to their environs every year and have been for many years. I fish them in July after ice out and again in October most years. I have caught hundreds of them. The greenback and its environment are in my soul.

When I get a moment, I’ll post a few greenback pictures for you so you can see what they really look like. They are an absolutely incredible fish. They were listed as extinct in 1936 but in the 80’s, they were found by an expedition that took samples of the fish back. DNA testing proved that they were in fact the greenback that was thought extinct. The categorization of the fish was changed to endangered.

Fishing for them is allowed but all must be returned to the water unharmed. Of course, law or not, I would never dream of killing one of those jewels. I haven’t killed a trout for about fifty years except for the brookies I bring to altitude to provide substance over the five days that I spend with the greenbacks and bighorns.

Dean...just one more tidbit. The greenback is not a fish of the west slope drainage. There are none west of the continental divide. The Colorado cutthroat sub species inhabits areas similar to the greenback but at lower altitudes west of the continental divide. The Colorado cutthroat and the greenback look a lot alike.

Its funny that there are no greenbacks west of the divide but they are close to it. I hike the divide and then turn east after five miles to get to my greenbacks. I have to hike a total of about ten miles to get to them with much elevation gain. But its well worth it. They are absolutely enchanting.

This is a July male greenback in spawn colors. He does have a few spots below the lateral line but its not common. I'll post an October male shortly

This is a picture of a male greenback in October. This is typical coloration which varies somewhat from lake to lake and creek to creek. But this is what they look like.

Impressionistic for certain Tom. I'm sure you have noticed that paintings of fish, in this case trout, can't possibly portray the wild strength of the life within - can't possibly portray the luminescense that life gives to a fish's aboriginal being, the shimmering colors and pulsating hues as he struggles to gain freedom. Kill that fish and the luminescense immediately disappears and the colors go flat. Seconds earlier it was quite a different being but in death it is nothing more than a meal... with some color.

I rarely kill a fish anymore either. In fact, I can't remember the last fish I killed but I think it was a mess of white perch my grandson and I caught at my place in Maine to fry up for breakfast with blueberry pancakes... or should I say, "Downeast Crepes"

Anyway, you'll get no arguement from me Tom - you've been there and done that while I have never fished those Rocky Mountain environs and have never seen a Greenback Cutthroat Trout other than in pictures. My trout of choice is wild brookies in New England and eastern Canada.





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I'm right with you Dean on brookies. They are a wonderful fish. Pictured below are a couple of my Rocky eating trout, a male and a female. It really hurts to kill a wild brookie.

It is better to have the maker, if still in business. make any repairs. Orvis cane rods, while at the lower end of market value because there are so many out there, can do the work and at a reasonable cost.

I have an Orvis 7/4 rod built by Ron White. I had an extra tip made for the rod and the sets taken out of the tips that came with rod. It cost $350 and I had the rod back in three weeks.

The market is not kind to impregnated cane rods. But, from a price / performance perspective, many Orvis cane rods are sold for bargain prices.

But for a 'working' cane rod it is hard to beat an Orvis impregnated rod for durability with a minimum of care and maintenance.





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For sure Dean. I've used them for years. although my Leonard's are my go to rods. I have a few Orvis Ron White rods that I am attached to. My 7/4 built by Ron White is a favorite. I tend to buy rods based on the person who built them. All but one of my Leonard rods were built by Ted Simroe.

If someone wanting to start fishing cane asks my advice, I always point them to the Orvis Battenkill's. They are truly great rods that won't break the bank. I never understood the market's aversion to impregnated rods. The Leonard Duracane and the Orvis rods are workhorses but they both take a hit for being impregnated. Not valid in my opinion.

Bruce

Looking over this post, I immediately recognized the Stan Bogdan reel, a personal friend from Nashua, NH.

When I was picking up one of Stan's reels at his home, that the PGCA presented to Art Wheaton in 2009, he signed and gave me print number 14 of 25 " The reels of S.E. Bogdan celebrating the early years 1945-1965". Nothing I asked for, he just did it. Stan was a perfect gentleman, a kind person, and an excellent craftsman.

Allan

Bogdan reels are to be treasured and always bring premium prices on the market. I've never owned one but plan to one day. They are absolutely classic reels and look good on cane rods. No better workmanship and they do appreciate year over year.

That is one thing I have always wished I had put away some "mad money" for. At this point in my life I can only hope to find one in a yard sale.





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Light trout reel on a Jenkins 7’9”. I’ll post other photos sometime.

My shrine to Bogdan.

Really nice Bruce.





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This has been a fascinating thread for me, on a topic I know so little about.

If I can distill, and possibly reconcile, what Paul N. and Tom F. have said about the Parker-Hawes rod, then it seems like it would qualify as a fine, but affordable, vintage cane rod to actually fish with.

Kathy G. and I just got back from a North Maine Woods fishing trip, where my guide summarily dismissed my no-name Japanese fiberglass rod, which I had received as a birthday gift in 1962.

He did say good things about my “poor but honest” Pflueger Medalist and old Ocean City reels, and employs his own of both brands.

Once we were in the canoe he put in my hands his Fenwick and Orvis rods, and being avowedly unskilled, I went with the flow.

But, I continue to consider the relationship between carrying a Parker gun afield and fishing with a fine, old cane rod. Even if I'm not planning to get involved, it is easy for an inveterate accumulator of vintage stuff to feel entrained by yet another delectation.

Fishing a fine cane rod is indeed akin to hunting with a Parker or other fine double. My go to rods are vintage Leonard split bamboo. They were built by hand which is a slow and painstaking process that involves much skill. With respect to the Pflueger Medalist, it’s a nice reel. I grew up fishing one. It’s not in the same class as my Orvis CFO’s or Hardy’s but it’s a good honest reel that also looks nice and is worthy to sit on a vintage cane rod.

I have never seen or cast a Parker-Hawes rod. They are rare and you don’t often see them offered for sale. I would like to own one, but only because of the connection to Parker. Their value when they do appear for sale is at the bottom of the price range for vintage cane rods. I suspect they are classed in the same league as a Montague, which is at the low end of the market. But there are many Montague’s out there still giving good service and my comments shouldn’t be interpreted as a hit on the fishability of that rod or the Parker-Hawes rod. My grandfather fished Orvis cane but had a Montague Manitu that he liked a lot. I still fish this rod from time to time.

The first picture is of a couple of rainbows on my home river in the west, the North Platte in Wyoming. The second picture is of a couple of Fine Spot sub species of cutthroat from my “secret” spot for these fish in the wilds of Wyoming, many miles from civilization. All my trout are taken on vintage cane rods.

I beg to differ with you Tom concerning the comparative values of the Montague line of cane rode vs. the Parker Hawes cane rods.
The very best examples of Montague rods might bring $200-250 on the best day... whereas a servicable Parker Hawes will bring well over $500 and the best examples command in excess of $1500.
Their manufacture may be somewhat comparable but it ends there.





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Interesting Dean. Frankly I haven't seen enough of them for sale to say for sure. I have only seen two and, if I remember correctly, the prices were between $250 and $350. Hawes made rods before the Parker link and they do show up more often on the market. I watch the market closely because I collect fine cane rods.

As with Parkers, condition is everything and I don't remember what the condition of the two Parker-Hawes rods were. But I do know that the Hawes rods generally are not held in high esteem as working rods. It is my impression, maybe wrong, that they are considered somewhat below a good Granger or Wright and McGill from a functional perspective. Those rods, and I believe, the Parker-Hawes, did not receive a lot of time consuming hand work. The bamboo strips were milled by machine as opposed to the high end rods that were milled by hand by master builders.

Fine cane rods are every bit as collectable as Parkers. As with Parker, the best of the high end makers rod's appreciate in value over time. Hunting with Parkers and fishing with cane rods are the pleasures of my life.

Leonard cane rods are what I focus on and fish with the most. The first picture is of a Leonard 4 wt. 7' rod. The second picture is of a "Baby" Leonard 3 wt. rod. The Leonard is the Parker of cane fly rods, in my opinion.

Nothing wrong with the strips being machine-milled as long as the machine is set up with the utmost care. But of course a machine can only do what it was designed to do. The complex tapers achieved by experts who actually design the taper and plane the individual strips to perform precisely as designed are certainly a far cry from those "milled" by machine - and, like a Parker, it is always the touch of the artisan which makes all the difference. Nevertheless, a Parker Hawes is leaps above a Montague...





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Nevertheless, a Parker Hawes is leaps above a Montague...
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You'll get no argument from me Dean. I have never fished a Parker-Hawes or a Hawes. All I know about them is the couple I have seen on the market and the general opinion of collectors such as myself. In defense of Montague, their "premium" rod the Manitu was a well finished rod. My grandfather's Manitu rod fishes well and I've always liked it. It certainly is not on a par with my Leonards, but it is a decent fishing rod and I like to play with it from time to time on the Housatonic River in Connecticut, my eastern home river.

Just so there's no confusion . . . H.L. Leonard rods were not hand-planed, the strips were produced with a beveler. A beveler is a little different from a milling machine -- a beveler utilizes two blades cutting with one pass as opposed to a milling machine that has one blade cutting with two or three passes. The old Leonard beveler is now owned and used by former Leonard rod builder Bob Taylor.

Years ago, I bought a blank allegedly made by Bob Taylor. I have no way of actually knowing if he built it. I finished the rod and enjoy it today. It's an 8 foot for 4.

he


That's exactly why I call them the Parker of cane rods. There was some non-manual work done on them but they were, like Parker, pretty much a handmade product that was built with great care. I consider the early Payne rods akin to the older London best doubles, all hand work. Parkers are not the equal of a London best double and Leonard is not equivalent to an early Payne or Garrison, but I love them both.

The beveler you mentioned was kept in a locked room at Leonard and few had access to it. Ted Simroe was my favorite builder at Leonard and I like the rods from his period the best. Others might disagree with that but I have a fondness for his actions. My collection of Leonard's are all Simroe rods except for a light salmon rod that I use for Atlantic salmon. I have fished Ted's rods from coast to coast. I no longer fish Oregon since I have added the coastal cutthroat to my quest to catch each sub species of cutthroat trout in their aboriginal drainages. But I will have a couple of Ted's rods with me this September on my quest for West Slope cutthroats and Bonneville cutthroats to complete my cutthroat slam.

Just a few more pictures of the Parker of fly rods, Ted Simroe's Leonard's. The first is a 5 wt. 8' rod, the second is a 5 wt 8 1/2 ft rod and the third is a 6 wt 8 1/2 ft rod.

Bob Taylor still attends the Catskills Rod Makers Gathering - he tells some interesting stories of the operation

and i have watched him demonstrate his wrapping technique - even videoed it once - still cannot figure out how he does it he is so fast

I was just given a Weber MONOGRAM bamboo fly rod, accompanied by an Akron-built Pflueger Medalist 1494 ½ reel. Its owner (a neighbor) had inherited it, will not fish it and knew that I have connection, however tenuous, with fly-fishing.

I wasn’t going to get into another sphere of collecting vintage stuff (as per my above post on 6-11-18). But the gifted rod and reel were delivered to my door-step the day before yesterday –- left right there on a block of granite -- like an orphan. So, I guess it is my fate to be the person to render the rod fishable again.

The Weber MONOGRAM may not be the “Parker” of vintage bamboo fly rods, but doesn’t it at least qualify as an evocative, albeit "hardware store", side-by-side?

Then feed it to a panda. Fishing rods are for catching fish, not sitting in a closet.

-Victor

Victor:

You misread my post and thus misquoted me.

It is my neighbor who will not fish it, and who gave it to me because I will fish it.