brad: thank you so much for your response re tempering.

i have been asking that question of individuals who claim to do high heat bone charcoal case coloring, for many years. you are the first one to correctly answer that question. most others seem not to comprehend what i am asking.

as a result of this thread and your fine reputation among some of our mutual customers, i have come to the conclusion that it is now cost effective and safe to recolor a high value shotgun receiver via your processes. thank you so much for your willingness to share your knowledge and expertise...the sign of a true professional.

ed lander, my go to gunsmith, is in the process of assembling a 28 ga ithaca nid repro, from a kit of parts left over from the sadly, now defunct ithaca classic doubles operation. should this effort be successful, the next step in the process, after engraving, will be heat treating and case coloring as needed. according to old ed, none of the parts seem to have been heat treated. would you be interested in taking on this phase of the project?

I should think that business propositions are better conducted by PMs.

I agree....

The first gun pictured is a knock out Bruce. Suppose I could take her out on a date?

as to these nid kits, i have three friends and customers who are each sitting on one of these kits, hoping to find a way to turn them into usable guns. the first stumbling block has been finding a gunsmith with the willingness to accomplish the fit and finish phase, which as it turns out, includes making parts not included in the kit. so far, old ed is the only one i have found who is willing to attempt the assembly of one of these guns. next is the engraving step. no problem there. lots of engravers to choose from. next is heat treating and case coloring. before this thread, there was only one other source that i would trust with this work. now there are two. next is final finish. no problem. lots of choices...

so, hopefully you will see that this not just a business proposition, but instead it is more like a mission or a quest or perhaps an obsession? generally, i would consider a business proposition as spending money to make money...in this situation, it is doubtful that any money could be made here, due to the anticapated costs involved. but, then if we four wind up with a finely finished custom gun, instead of a pile of parts, perhaps that would be a good thing?

My heart is pounding with excitement. Please, Ed, don't make us all wait for Sunday to hear the final answer. This thread started off with a great purpose and excellent photography. It has diminished into, "Who Cares" and poor photography. IMHO could we please give it a rest?

Dennis

dennis: the pictures of the fired pots are kinda nice, dont you agree?

Ed, are you asking me if I like the photo quality or do I like the pots. I like the pots but wish the photo was a little more of a close up to see details. As for the photo quality itself it is a decent snapshot but if I were looking to buy a pot (I am not) I would want more detail. If you are REALLY asking about the photos of the three case colored guns I think to really judge which is which the photos should have been a side view of each receiver rather than parts that really can't be looked at closely due to the distance from the lens and not all photos depicting the same part of the gun. I hope that makes sense.

dennis: makes sense...what also makes sense is that you may have this thread mixed up with another one?

Ed, you are correct. I was reading two threads, Parker Case Color Quiz from you and Real Deal Case Colors from Bruce Day. I had seen the photos of the pots from your niece and somehow in my pea brain got it mixed up with your quiz on case colors. Sorry! I will try to be more careful next time.

You know, when I started this thread I passed on something I had learned with some photos and thought it might generate some advancement and maybe even thoughtful discussion. It has to some degree but I'm concerned that many of these threads are going to be diverted and degraded, as this one has.
I have differences of opinion sometimes with a couple people here but that doesn't mean that I don't respect them as people or respect their appreciation of the Parker gun and its preservation for the future.
But I don't understand what the hell is happening now. I look sometimes at other collecting forums and what I see is not what I want to be a part of. There was once a Lefever forum, well I don't even see that anymore and I understand a couple guys ruined it.
Maybe this is just venting, but we have had the premier, most civilized, and most thoughtful forum, something that people want to be a part of, and I'd not like to lose that.
If I'm off base, let me know.

No Bruce, you are not off base at all. The fact that some contentious replies have been made followed by snide remarks and insinuations makes it uncomfortable to say the least. If I had wanted to get into a pissing match, then I have family for that. This is supposed to be educational, informative and fun. Please let us keep it that way. If someone is so inclined to vent hostility or indignation towards a comment of statement of fact or opinion, they should do it in private and not to raid a thread. My father once told me "never argue with a fool in public, as a stranger could not tell the difference between you. Thanks.
Jim DiSpagno

My opinion: ed is here to promote his gun business and also has hopes that he will become recognized as a Parker guru. And when he appears to be failing to achieve those two goals he reverts to trolling. Just like a twelve year old boy who runs a stick down the neighbor's fence to make their dog's bark. I have seen this pattern over and over on the Doublegun. He not so subtly trolls guns-for-sale through the main forums and self - promotes. He scoffs at the BBS members, community and their values and traditions and sees us as sheep to sheared and slaughtered. That is the end of my opinion.

ed at this point you ususally give me a warning about getting banned. Please just report my post to the moderator and skip that tedious threat.


Best,


Mike

I agree and appreciate the original intention of this and other threads of similar topics. However, one must always be careful on these boards with the topic of CCH. They always end up going in the same direction if given enough time.

Bruce, since the third picture of Trojans is of a Remington gun, are we to understand that gun to be colored by the bone and charcoal case hardening method or by a different method?

Bill, those are CH's guns and he said see what they say about those. The first two are earlier and most certainly charcoal case coloring. The third may be a transition gun, I think I recall that it is, but looks a bit more to me like cyanide than charcoal. All cyanide guns don't have to be garishly tiger striped and I think it is an issue of technique. I've seen some that are at least to me very difficult to tell cyanide from charcoal, particularly after some wear and oxidation.

What do you think?

Bruce, I think your thread was great and I think most of us feel that way. Please allow me to point out something that I have personally been guilty of and I am not referring to anyone but myself in this point. A problem with emails and threads such as this one is we do not have the opportunity to speak in person to whom we are sending or receiving the thread. Therefore we tend to let our personal issues sometimes cloud what we think the other person is saying. As a new member to the PGCA I have noticed that many members seem not to like a couple of other members. From reading some threads it is obvious why. Having said that I have to also say I have never met anyone on this site in person so I can't honestly say what type of people they would be. Most are probably wonderful people who may have a difference of opinion from mine. Some are apparently obnoxious to the point of irritating a number of people who read their posts. Some are self serving. Most of us though are in this because they genuinely love Parker Brothers shotguns and have the same goals as you do. Even before I bought my one (so far) Parker GH I read the posts and loved them. I loved the photos of really high quality guns and I loved the (for lack of a better word) professionalism of the members. This is a great organization that is kept running smoothly by men and women such as yourself. I guess what I am saying is there are members in every organization who just don't fit in or are self serving. Believe me when I say that almost always the other members know exactly who they are and deal with them accordingly. This is a great organization with wonderful members. It is only getting better.

dennis: no problem here and no apology necessary...

as to the quality of the three photos in the case color quiz thread, they are quote old and may have been taken on my original digital camera that i bought around 2000 or even before. so, they are not of the quality produced by the newer cameras. i upgraded cameras in 2006 and am due for another upgrade. and if you care to, please do take your best guess re the origin of the case colors on the three guns pictured in the case color quiz thread. regards, ed

Dennis,

I hope that the last few days bantering have not been some of your first experiences on the Forum. This is a great place with great people. I say one of the best places in fact. Please do stick around. Maybe you will get the chance to meet some of us in person in the future. I think that any of us would like that.

mike: i am not going to respond to your personal attack out of respect for bruce and his desire to get this thread back on the original topic that he started.

xxx edited for clarity.

Sorry Ed, now you're confused as to which thread you're responding to.... NOT the three pictures you posted on that other thread.

shot: sorry, no response here...lets get it back on topic as bruce suggested.

Dennis is absolutely correct. There are people here who are disruptive, self serving, and are not liked by other members. I don't understand why they do what they do, but I suspect mental illness or alcohol, not that there is anything wrong with either. We have had problems before and posters have been banned. Ed Muderlak is an example. I always knew that Ed Muderlak had the best intentions for our organization, he just didn't suffer fools well. I have had my bad days with Ed Muderlak, but it had nothing to do with either of us being self serving fools. Maybe a little mental illness, but no alcohol. Muderlak had good reason to be crotchety. He had been mistreated by PGCA leaders in the past. Ed Good is different. He has had no contact with PGCA or its leaders, so has not been mistreated in any way. He admits by his posts that he is out to hurt us, and as been openly critical of PGCA members and the PGCA on other forums. He has been banned before on this forum, and probably deserves to be banned again because of his disruptive behavior. He evades suggestions that he has advertised really abused (by gunsmiths) Parkers on his internet sale sites. He has done just that and should admit it. If he chooses to sell better guns now and in the future, we will figure that out. I don't think we have to treat Ed Good gently. He is not a nice guy. Well, he may be a nice guy with a problem. We should be willing to criticize his behavior like some seem to be unwilling to do. He is here to hurt us and disrupt our wonderful forum. Don't cooperate with him, don't reply to his posts, no matter how interesting he appears to make them. Congratulations to our moderators and webmaster for handling these situations so well.

murphy: wow! now that is clearly unfair, incorrect and down right untrue.

your post could even qualify as "Vitriolic" ?

please do be specific:

how have i admitted by my posts to be out to hurt anyone?

please do provide examples of where i have been critical of pgca members and the pgca on other forums?

you are mistaken. i have never been banned on this forum.

as for my advertising abused parkers. that is a matter of opinion. the fact that most parker guns i sell are in my inventory for less than 60 days, indicates their acceptance by internet buyers.

you are again mistaken. i am here to hurt no one. i am here to learn, contribute and to have some fun. nothing more and nothing less.

bruce: i am trying to get these guys back on topic... but as you can see some just do not want to go back. i do regret hi jacking your thread. but, when brad showed up here my enthusiasm to pick his brain just got the better of me. for that i do apologize.

Ed stop acting like Wally running to Mrs Cleaver and complaining about the other boys when they are just reacting to your shenanigans. Just take a time out and go somewhere and dream of Adrienne Barbeau and handcuffs until you are able to play nice and come back on.

bruce: adrienne barbeau...yeah that frenchie gal in the 80's horror flicks. now i remember...she was ok, but always seemed to me like she needed a bath and a shave.

now brigitte bardot...thats more to my taste. fragile, naughty and approachable. sorta reminds me of the first 20 ga parker i torched...oops, sorry, was not supposed to mention that.

i will take your suggestion though...i will be away for a while. i have work to do. consignments are building up and i gotta take pitchers, up load erm and write descriptions. very time consuming, but somebody's gotta do it. among this latest lot are two nice dh grade guns. watch for them, you know where...

This was a great thread. I really enjoyed the wonderful photos of all the beautiful guns and Brad's technical information on the case coloring processes he uses. But it seems that it is now all about the people and no longer about the case colors or the Parkers. I can't help but wonder whether this thread has served its intended purpose and should now be mercifully shut down.

ruff: might not be a bad idea? but should that not be bruce's call?

and another thing murphy: for you to bring up ed muderlak, or anyone else who is deceased and who is not here to defend himself from the likes of you is low class, to say the least...and if this is attacking a pgca member, such as yourself, then so be it...i aint got time for dis no mo...gotta go to work.

I would if I could but that is up to John "Atilla" Dunkle.

:bigbye:

On GunBroker, the seller of an item has a feature available to "block" troublesome bidders from posting a bid on his auction. The thought occurs to me that it would be very nice for the originator of a thread to have a similar feature available here to "block" certain members from posting so they can't hijack and/or ruin the thread. I would sure hate to put a lot of time and effort into taking photos and creating an interesting and valuable thread only to have one guy come along and predictably ruin it with endless banter. At a very minimum, the guy who originated the thread should have the option of terminating it when it has gone completely off the rails. Just a thought.

I don't know if this is the end, but I'm sure that the moderators will be interested in the recent posts. Thank you for recent posts.

ruff: nay, freedom of speech and all dat.

Bruce,
Adrienne Barbeau and handcuffs? I'm still laughing. Thanks. Probably one of your best posts (and you've had many good ones).

I'm sure the moderators are waiting for me to clarify that I am, in no way, disparaging Ed Muderlak. I am, in contrast, making some negative comments about Ed Good. Ed Muderlak was a man of letters and good intent. Ed Good seems to be no such thing.

To be clear and factual. Mr. Murdelak was not banned from this new forum when it was started years ago. On the previous forum, I wasn't an Admin, so I never carried over any banned users from previous administrators. To be clear as well, only one individual has been banned from this forum permanently. While a few have been given a "time out", it was done while they were informed of why.

If we are going to discuss the facts, I would suggest they be correct.

My thanks for that,

John

It is the moderator's call.

Only in Rascal Heaven does the original poster control the thread.

Best,

Mike