THANKYOU I WILL CONTACT LARUE AFTER I SEND FOR THE RESEARCH LETTER SHOULD I ADD ANY EXTRA INFO WHEN I SEND FOR THE RESEACH LETTER? WILL THEY REFERENCE MY ALBUM HERE IF I TELL THEM ABOUT IT. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? THANKS RON

When you write Mark Conrad and ask him for a research letter, you could reference the album photos here, he may have already seen them. He will comment as he sees fit.

You might look at the thread, Readily available Parkers, below. There are photos there of some outstanding G grades that are original or partially restored condition. I think many of those guns would have high interest to many Parker collectors as true to their type.

I've given you my thoughts and I see many other Parker people are on this thread now, who may have other valuable views. I'm strictly one person with my own half assed views, as my friend John Dunkle well knows.

Many more qualified guys than me, have politely commented on your gun, and while I may be relatively new to the forum, I'm not new to Parkers.
First off, let me say you have a very pretty gun, That said, an original Parker can only be original once, but it can be embellished, altered, upgraded and modified as many times as there are people wanting to do it,and willing to spend the money.
I think from your album, it's apparent that the gun was originally a Grade 2, or, G grade, and was most likely a Damascus barreled gun when it left Meriden. The lack of rib inscription, and other markings would seem to suggest it was re-barreled by Remington at a much later date.
Whether the butt stock is original to the gun might be able to be determined if it were removed, but it doesn't mater that much. In my most unqualified opinion, the upgraded checkering, checkered side panels and fleur-de-lis do not resemble those on grade 6 or 7 guns done at Meriden, but that doesn't mean it wasn't done by Remington. The same holds true for the engraving. Add to your album some pictures of the fore-end so that we can see if that matches the style, or grade, that the gunsmith had in mind when doing the stock and engraving. It's really unfortunate that Remington repair work can't be documented.
While your gun is unique, and quite nice, I'm not certain it would command much more than a good Grade 2 from a purist Parker collector, but might well from the many who appreciate good workmanship on it's own merit. Whats nice is that the work wasn't done to misrepresent it as a much higher grade, or, bluntly, a fake.

THANKS EDGAR FOR YOUR INPUT I ADDED THE PICTURES YOU REQUESTED. I AM NOW WRITTING MY REQUEST FOR A RESEARCH LETTER.

B stock.

This gun has only been shot a few times and has lots of case colors, which wash out with camera flash. The rib around the breech balls is what Bill Murphy was talking about. The Fleur dis lys carving is what Edgar Spencer was talking about.

YOU ALSO HAVE A PURRRDY PARKER...

Now doesn't that get more interesting. Water table shows a G frame but engraving is way beyond G. The butt stock checkering is high grade and the SN matches. Since there are some surviving records and it is an unusual gun, I think I would order a letter from research to satisfy what curiosity can be satisfied. Records for higher graded guns often show the original owner so you may be able to chase that down a bit as well.

Good luck in your search.
Jack

Your repair code stamps indicate your gun was serviced at Remington in January of 1940 if I read the code correctly as BJ3. Hang tight on the advice you are getting about outside appraisers. You are likely to find out more here than anywhere else.

Thanks for the fore-end pics, Ron. It appears that the fore-end was left unaltered from it's G grade configuration. If you look at the hammerless pictures of the various grades you'll see that the tip iron had a raised edge beginning with the D grade, and the fore-end iron, latch and tip iron were engraved, also beginning with the D grade. Seems an odd oversight these weren't also upgraded when the action and stock were.

From your pictures it appears that your gun started life as an extractor gun in 1895 and was subsequently fitted with Moran & Wolfersperger automatic ejectors --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...arker73542.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...sinGH73542.jpg

The pin in the forward part of the recess around the hinge pin ends and the slots milled in the front of the receiver are M&W work.

From the Remington repair code BJ3 (B = January, J = 1940, 3 = repair) it appears your gun was fitted with a set of new VH-Grade barrels and a new extractor forearm, and the M&W ejector parts removed from the receiver. Also the gun was fitted with the post 1910 bolt and the new barrels have the replaceable bolt plate.

BARREL IS MARKED V GRADE VH IS JUST HAMMERLESS CORRECT? SO IT STARTED AS AN EXTRACTOR GUN WAS ALTERED THEN CHANGED BACK?

Yes but Bill, he said he wanted a valuation for insurance. Finding out information doesn't equate to a valuation, and an insurer will want an appraisal, which must be a document.

It would be different if the gun could be traced to an extraordinary famous person or event, but the chances of that are slim. To me, it is what we see, and an appraisal deals with that.

MAILED MY REQUEST TODAY? I SURE HOPE I CAN FIND OUT WHO HAD THIS WORK DONE WHO OWNED THIS GUN...THEY MUST OF BEEN SOMEONE SPECIAL DO YOU AGREE?

Edgar, from GHE SN 155, 033, a typical gun of the period.

The research letter will most likely tell you that SN 84,025 was ordered in 1896 and was a G grade extractor gun, 30" damascus barrels choked full and full, 14" LOP, and 3" drop at heel. The gun was most likely shipped to a dealer or large hardware distributor and cost $80. If the gun was shipped to New York, maybe Shoverling Daly, or if lucky, the Charles Parker Company showroom in NYC. Some guns show the name of the first purchaser.

There will be no records on the Remington work in 1940. It is a remote possibility that you could take the gun to Babe Del Grego in Ilion, and he might be able to tell you something about what he believes with the gun.

Many Parkers were owned by "somebody special" and still are.

YES WHEN I SAID SOMEONE SPECIAL I MEANT... I KNOW THE OWNER NOW DECEASED WAS TIGHT WITH THE ROOSEVELT'S HERE IN HYDE PARK NY THEY RACED ICE YACHTS HERE ON THE HUDSON, AND DID MANY OTHER SPORTING..THINGS

That'll teach me to try and keep up with the big dogs. My GHE 16 is 179Kish and it's tip iron is engraved, but no raised edge.
Did you get your Colt spring?

Ron,

Could you do us all a favor and turn off the Caps? The first letter of a sentence should be captialized, the rest lower case.

Thanks much.

Edgar, small details changed over time. Cost savings measures. Scrollwork engraving became larger, some would say coarser, the small bead was dropped, checkering became coarser, the mullered border was eventually dropped. Still, of any period, you can find outstanding guns.

I'm a long way from being a big dog and am trying to work my way up from apprentice third class to second class.

I gave the Colt to a good local gunsmith for repair. The screws were in very tight, I soaked it in penetrating oil, still tight and I didn't want to bugger screws. I took the gun to the Colt Collectors Asso, which was having their national mtg in town, and they said it was just a good honest old gun that they would do nothing but keep it clean and functional. I see lots of these old Colts get refinished and engraved. The gun seemed to be worth about $2500, which was a surprise to me, particularly since you can buy a brand new one for $1100. If you think valuing Parkers is difficult, with Colts it seemed even more so. I saw guns which looked about alike to me and they were priced from $2500 to $6500 , and some up to $10,000 and I am not able to make reason out of it yet. These guys don't shoot their guns, they just fondle them . Makes a C grade Parker at $10,000 look like an absolute bargain, and you can shoot it on game and targets.

Sorry i see it better....didn't think anyone minded....

Researcher, good catch on the aftermarket ejectors. Apparently, when the barrels were installed at Remington, a new forend was installed, and not engraved up to the level of the rest of the gun. However, the checkering pattern on the forend is up to the grade of the gun. That would lead us to believe that the engraving was not done at the same time the barrels and forend were installed. Mr. Scores, in the late Remington era, the grade and chamber length designation was stamped on the side of the barrel lug. This set of barrels was probably set aside for installation on a V Grade gun when manufactured. Rebarrelled guns often carried the V Grade designation as yours does.

Ron, there is a forum protocol which we all had to learn. Typing all in caps is the same as yelling, the bigger the type, the louder the yell. We cut you some slack because we could see that you are new at it.

Bill, you see that the V barrels have extractors on them.....

I have a rebarrelled CHE 16 with the Rem barrels, not marked graded, just SN'ed to the gun and the date repair code. Wish I had the original damascus.

This is the first time I've seen a set of 1/2 frame barrels installed on a #1 frame gun, but my DHE 16 is the first time I had seen a set of #1 frame barrels installed on a 1/2 frame receiver. Have any of our members ever seen a set of 1/2 frame barrels without automatic ejectors, as on Mr. Scores' gun?

Remington Parkers
 

Bill; I remember an early Parker, with 1/2 frame barrels mounted, at Las Vegas several years ago.
I no longer have the Remington correspondence I used to prepare the PP articles on shut down of the Parker operation, but I have some memory of it.
Ilion barrels were made on Remington machinery,
Ilion barrels carried no steel trade mark. A started gun could be finished to any grade ordered.
Complete sets of Parker parts were furnished to Lefever and Griffin and Howe
There were shortages of frames and fore end irons
Parkers were still priced without ejectors in the paperwork, but there were none in the last 100 odd started guns

Parkers were made and/or upgraded by the Remington Custom Shop for Remington directors, officers, and employees.

Best, Austin

Bruce, I know what you mean about Colts and their values. I have been a student of SAAs for over 50 years and will always be just a student. It shouldn't be any mystery to you that a worn 1st gen will be worth twice what a new one costs. The mystery lies in the fact that 3 seemingly identical worn first gens can be valued from $2k, $6k, and +$20k. I have had over 50 of them and still have many. Like the hammer "Wall Hanger" the BP framed guns can be shot, with care. I sold one just this week, but you'll be proud of me; it was to fund a Parker purchase.

So Austin, is the engraving and stock work on the Scores gun likely Lefever work? I've seen fleur dis lis before like that on guns that were attributed to Lefever, but I'm too distant to them and too far from Parker centers to really know.

I've seen a few Lefever guns said to be done by that shop but you fellows back there see many more than ever find there way out here to the Parker desert.

Wonder what the machined slots are for on the front of the action? The forend lug on the barrels have a 2 stamped, usually the sign of a 2 barrel set, maybe another set of barrels and forend with ejectors?

Ron, I would be interested in buying a Parker with Roosevelt provenance. The Teddy Roosevelt Fox shotgun sold for a pretty good price, and that was only a Fox, not a Parker.

Bill, I am not sure how this can be proved it is a longshot but i now from his family member they were buddy buddy. Maybe the research letter will help? Remington would have no records to seek? Now your thoughts on the engraver Runge? who is this Lefever others are speaking of? Where would be you next point of attack be? thanks again to you and all the other members everyone has been very helpful

Bruce: What are your thoughts on the butt stock? Would an "after-market" stockist have stamped the SN?

Ron: Is there also a single digit or letter under the SN on the wood?? Could you take a close-up pic of the area?

Gun Barrel
 

Hello James,

I have a VH for which I need a replacement cocking link. If you don't find the owner of the remains of your barrel, I would be interested in buying it from you for the part that I badly need.

Thanks,

Galen Hays, gmhays27@sbcglobal.net

Tarnation, I only removed the screw and lifted the tang enough to see the number with a bright light there was no letter just the same sn.on the stock.at the time I was not sure how to remove it completly so as I said I lifted about 1/8" from the wood to see the number

PICTURES
 

Bruce; The pictures of the Stores gun do not appear on my set of comments on this thread,

Best Austin

he put them in a separate album instead of the discussion

I don't think Frank Lefever and Son had anything to do with this gun.

Ron: Once you have been able to make the initial 1/8 turn, the rest is easy. Complete removal requires only that you continue to turn counter clockwise until the guard is free. As for a pic, a half turn would likely make all easily visible. The only concern is to ensure you have lifted the guard above the wood before turning but you will have already done that to achieve the 1/8 turn.

Jack

ok jack you twisted my arm it is up....

what is the 2 jack?

Ron's multiple threads/posts have now been merged into one single thread.

Carry on.

John D.

Ron, your Parker is an enigma.
It started life as a grade 2 but the engraving and checkering and the addition of the fleur de lis and checkered panel upgrades are the real parts to the puzzle.
We know what happened to the barrels... Remington rebarreled the gun.
The engraving coverage is what we would expect to see on a grade 5 or 6 but the quality and execution of the engraving are not up to Parker Bros. standards... possibly done by an engraver at Remington (although I doubt it) but not, in my opinion, done by Robert Runge.

Ready yourself for the very real possibility that you may never learn who made all those changes to 84025.