Like all membership organizations, and it doesn't matter if it's the AAA or AMA or your bowling league, membership is grown ONE person at a time through a relationship. I notice a lot of forum associates post just to get a price. One idea is to have someone act as a "liaison" to non members and offer to speak to them on the phone about any questions. Another is to form our own database of SOLD PRICES such as Excellence Magazine does for Porsches'. The only ones who can access that database are members. I'm not sure that would be difficult to do.

Being a young bloke in this collecting world - if anyone is wanting to get rid of their Parker 12 gauges I offer a low cost service for disposal, just send them to me.


But its a lot of what people have already said I think. The 12 gauge is the most common gauge and few my age want a double barrel, and even fewer want a SXS, and even fewer still want a vintage one.

The anti-thesis to this - I personally enjoy the 12 gauge guns and the few collectors my age I know do as well, purely because we can afford them. Saving up for a 16 or even a 20 is a financial undertaking even in the lowest grades. Mind you the economy is what it is, then you have a family to support, then your other hobbies, trying to buy a first home, etc. At least we can get in the game with 12's

If you think the price of a vintage Parker 12ga is low now it will be a lot lower if and when the US follows the UK and enacts a complete ban on the use of lead shot.

Sometimes I think having a collection of vintage doubles is like playing a game of musical chairs, there may not be seat when the music stops if you own too many.

Is that being proposed?

In my humble opinion if you have the disposable income for this hobby a ban on lead shot would just fuel the fire by allowing you to afford higher grades for less money. Considering I collect for the nostalgia and solely hunting and not to diversify my investment portfolio, 5-10 boxes of bismuth or similar a year won’t dissuade me.

It probably will effectively negate anyone new from entering the game, unless they grow up into it, but I don’t think it’s going to cause a mass exit of the hobby.

Of course, if you’re shooting a round of 100 every weekend your opinion will be different.

In any event, it’s speculation at this point, and out of my control. What is in my control is enjoying these guns and choosing to accept the risk that may or may not come, considering there is an existing solution.

It became the law of the land in California on July 1st. It was banned for waterfowling 35+ years ago and it has been banned on some federal and state lands as well.

I would say it's coming eventually, just a question of when.

Over the course of a year I shoot thousands of lead shells at clay pigeons and crows. Bismuth is not an affordable alternative/existing solution and steel remains the most economical non tox shot which is not friendly to vintage guns.

Seriously who is going to pay $50 or more for the shells to shoot a 25 target round of trap, skeet or five stand? Because two dollars a shell is about the cost of reloading bismuth at today's prices.

I'll say it again. Have waterfowl populations done better or worse since they mandated non toxic waterfowl loads?

That argument won't change the trajectory of saving the planet.

You may have overlooked my statement regarding what you do with the guns and how you get enjoyment from them. I can swallow the 2 dollar a shot pill for my purposes, and if no one else can for theirs, well I guess that just works out for me then.

Not a generalized lead ban but here in NH I know of three trapshooting clubs, N. Hampton, Exeter and Lone Pine in Hollis that were shut down because it was determined lead pellets were landing in a wetland (it doesn't take much for the state to declare a wetland). The largest trap shooting facility in Pelham NH had to shut down two fields out of eight for the same reason and could no longer handle the number of shooters for the state championship, so the NH state championship was moved to MA of all places. Another club, Farmington, has half a skeet field because some of the stations were determined to be putting shot in a pond.

Like Pete I shoot on average a flat a week. I'll have take to up pickleball.

I am passionate about hunting and the second ammendment. While we all know what is coming, I believe we are in a state of denial. It is not a matter of if but when. As we age out the letter designated youth that have been force fed through the publlic education system, to believe that guns and hunting are bad things, will be electing, and elected. I could stand on my soapbox and continue much longer but will cede the floor lest I be banned from further comments.

I try to take a hopeful view. CA did ban lead on public ground for hunting. Not private - i confirmed this with a large skeet/trap club today. No change on private land. UK did ban lead but lets not forget this phrase 'Exemptions: ... outdoor target shooting ranges with appropriate risk management, ' I tend to think outdoor shooting ranges will come up with long term risk management plans. Maybe we should all ask our clubs about future plans now. I am sorry about the impact to an old club shooting over a pond or on public land. I'm sure its frustrating to be forced to change. Every industry has to adapt over time. A race track i ran at for a long time got run out of business over noise and zoning. Didnt adapt fast enough. A golf course i used to frequent got zoned out and turned into commercial property. funny that now the hottest ticket in town is TopGolf -seems to always be crowded . I am hopeful for hunting and shooting to survive well into the future.

I've belonged to a public club for about 50 years and it is located on the shores of the water resevoir for the Baltimore City and County drinking water. You can see the water as you shoot. We have the lead mined every 5-6 years or so, just had it done a month or so ago, and the soil and water tested. Zero lead contamination and this club has been in existence almost 75 years. This banning lead shot for whatever purpose is just another back door way to ban hunting, shooting and eventually guns.

I think you mentioned shooting 100 rounds on a weekend somewhere Dylan? Your $2 a pill is a lot when some of us shoot 200-500 A WEEK. There are a lot of those guys out there who shoot many thousands a year. Bismuth is simply NOT an option for these guns at that volume. Hunting is low volume but if this is for all shooting then either our guns go bye bye or I suspect there will be a LOT of outlaws walking around simply giving the finger. I know one person who simply will not comply.

This started out as a "why 12 gauge" thread. Getting back to that, let me comment. Where would be be without Parker pigeon guns, Parker duck guns, Parker single trap guns, Parker 12 gauge skeet guns, high condition Trojans, high condition VH and VHE guns, average condition G, D, C, B, A and higher Parkers? That's a large number of 12 gauge guns on the double gun market. Of course, that's just Parkers. What about the Foxes, Smiths, Purdeys and Bosses? I don't think the 12 gauge market is quite dead yet. Please comment.

Massachusetts covered this with a ‘caveat emptor’ clause that says if the shooting range was there before you were you have NO CASE.





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12 gauges certainly make sense, given the ease and expense of finding appropriate ammo. I shoot off-the-shelf stuff in my three 12ga SBT's. I have two other 12's, a Sterlingworth and an early Fox A grade but when I'm in the field it's still a 16 or occasionally a 20 for me.

Bill, In response to your comment on 12 gauge guns, it is really a matter of how many 12 gauges are out there. I talk to a lot of the major dealers on a regular basis. They all are hesitant to buy 12s unless they are cheap because they tend to sit in inventory a long time. If you look at gunsinternational today they have 444 Parkers listed for sale. 80% of them are 12 gauge. No businessman wants to have inventory that is slow turning. The flip side to this is look how much small bores have gone up in price.

John, so the twelves are slow selling. I don't care because mine are being put to good use. They will be a hard sell when I am ready to liquidate but sixty percent of real value will usually be more than I paid for them.

If you want a Purdey, the overwhelming majority of production is in 12 gauge.

I created this thread because I thought folks are simply “softer” than they were in the past. I’m not one to ask about that as I shoot a .375 Holland & Holland for pleasure at the range. Not everyday, but from time to time.

Mr. Bill, I have 12 gauge guns, and mentioned earlier that I have a Parker 12 gauge that is being redone, reurbished, restored, ruined at this time. I was advised by several people, including Steve Fjestad (a picture of myself and Mr. Fjestad looking at the gun while at the NRA show in Louisville, KY appears in the memorial Blue Book, later published in the DGJ) that the gun was not worth the money it would take to restore it. Being only the second Parker D grade that I had ever seen for sale locally, I ignored those wiser than myself and have had it as a project ever since. I have purchased one or two other 12's since. I do not object to the 12's, and have no disdain for the gauge, I just find the 16's and 28's preferable to the 12's. I miss just as many with the 12's as I do with the smaller gauges, and the smaller gauges are easier to blame due to having less powder and shot.

No 12 gauge is not "really unpopular", they are just not the shotgun fad today. People who shoot shotguns understand that the most effective gun is the 12 gauge. Other's are used for various reasons which includes what is the in thing at the time. If one shows up at the gun range with a 16 then he/she is cool. If he/she has a 12 then he/she is old hat.

I currently have 14 shotguns that are 12 gauge made by various manufacturers including Parker, Marlin, Franchi, Mossburg, Stevens, Hatsan & Winchester. I have a couple of .410's, one 28 ga. couple of 20's and a couple of 16's, none of which are Parkers. I don't plan on buying any more 12's unless it's a really great deal, because I don't need any more.

While I'm not a 12 gauge guy and never have been in the last two years I have bought several. A 12 gauge with a 7/8oz or 3/4oz payload is a pure pleasure to shoot.
As mentioned previously the UK has banned all lead shot which drives down the cost of a vintage Purdey, H&H, Boss etc. Two years ago at the Southern I picked up a matched pair of Purdey forward snap action guns for what one would have cost several years prior.
To the best of my recollection my shotgun adoptions over the last two years by gauge are 12's -6 (but in my defense there are two matched pairs), 16's-3 and 20's -2..
The only hunting I do with a 12 is some Quail hunting in Georgia and some Grouse hunting in MI with a Purdey light game gun and RST 2 inch shells. Essentially a 28ga load in a 12

Clearly there is much pessimism here about the future of side-by-side shotguns, bird hunting, and Parker collecting. I do not share that pessimism. From my perspective, the left and their culture wars have created a generation of men that are exploding with masculinity. Just Google the "Tate brothers." Many of those men will eventually find their way to us.

I recently read this article and thought the author was preaching to the choir: https://dailyreckoning.com/gen-z-nat...vs-communists/

-Victor

Victor, I'm with you! :clap: