I reload all of my 2 1/2” shells, 12, 16 and 20 gauge. But then, components aren’t easy to find either… and they’re not cheap either.





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I find it hard to believe those guns are chambered for 2 1/2” shells. Out of all my Parkers I only have one that is truly a 2 1/2” gun. That is a top-lever O frame 16g hammer gun. I’d get a good digital caliper to take your measurements. I was never a fan of those drop-in chamber and choke gauges.

One can always have the chambers lengthened if your BWT is good.

What "expensive" components are specifically for 2 1/2" shells? I use the same primers, powder, wads, and shot for both 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" shells. I load in 2 1/2" RST empties that I pick up at Side by Side shoots.

What is the downside to lengthening the chamber to 2 5/8 or 2 3/4?

If it’s a “shooter” which is a gun that will be used instead of looked at and held onto as an investment, the upside is being able to shoot regular competition or hunting loads out of it.

Bill, the majority of 2 1/2” recipes call for Gualandi “short gun” SG wads which are designed to fit in the smaller capacity hulls.

Loss of originality, nothing else as long as the barrel wall thicknesses are sufficient to safely do the chamber lengthening. As Mike said, no real downside for a shooter.

I might leave the GHE and the 20 ga alone but the 12 ga Trojans and 16 Trojan I like to shoot.
Any recommendation on who could do the work?

Mike, regardless of what your recipes call for, I use any wad that fits in the shell and doesn't hang out the front. The wad I have been using for a few hundred 2 1/2" RST 7/8 ounce loads is a green wad with short petals, don't remember the brand. The loads are beautiful with flat tops. I have two other wads that are identical to the green one in height, one pink, and the other WW Grey.

From Sherman Bell's Article in the 2001 Winter DGJ Long Shells in Short Chambers
“Shooting 2 3/4” shells in 2 1/2” chambers does make them produce more pressure-but in most cases it is less than a 1000 psi increase. I see no reason, related to safety, to modify an original 2 1/2” chambered gun to shoot 2 3/4” shells, if the 2 3/4” load you intend to use would develop pressure that is safe in that gun, when fired in a standard chamber!”

Craig: as you know that statement was based on a study of 12g shells
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...A/edit?tab=t.0

We have NO data regarding using long for chamber 16g or 20g shells.

Again, some modern nominally 2 3/4" shells are shorter than 2 3/4". It was recently reported that Aguila 16s were short
https://trueshotammo.com/ammunition/...1-oz-1200-fps/

Are Manufactures supposed to release the pressure for their various loads?
I've been using Fiocchi 12 ga 2 3/4 " 1oz 1250 fps 7.5 shot shells in an $800 Trojan which I found out yesterday, when I got my little feeler gauge, only has 2 1/2" chambers.
I immediately switched to using RST 2 1/2" shells.
The Fiocchi cost $120 a flat
the RST $230 plus shipping.
I can:
Practice with an old Remington 1100 I have, which I would rather not do.
Have the chambers lengthened on the Trojan.
Continue to use the Fiocchi in the 2 1/2" chambers.
Or be distracted by the thought that every time I pull one of the triggers it will cost me a dollar if I switch to the RST, and accept the fact that using the old gun I like will cost me.
Your thoughts please.....

The U.S. makers decline to provide pressure data, and with the exception of Tom Armbrust, those doing ballistic testing won't test factory loads.
Most of the Italian makers do.
B&P Comp One 28 gm is only 6530 psi

IMHO it is likely your 12 g chamber is 2 5/8"
There is an easy way to measure chamber length using a 3" x 5" index card, rolled lengthwise, and slid into the chamber. It will partially unroll and expand to the chamber diameter.
Gently advance the card until it stops at the end of the chamber (where the forcing cone constriction starts), use a pencil to mark the card at the breech end of the barrel, and repeat the steps to see if it always comes to same spot.
Then use a ruler to measure the length marked on the card.
The chamber must be clean, and it works best with a new 3” X 5” card.

Let us know what you find.
If 2 5/8" (and I recognize we're quibbling over 1/8") pick a 1 oz at 1200 fps, shoot and be happy.
It's more difficult with 16g and 20g loads.

Or a 1 1/8 oz., 1145 fps load.

My comment was meant to imply the fact that components aren’t so cheap anymore, not just for 2 1/2” loading.





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Getting closer to figuring this out...
3 X 5 card resulted in more or less the same as the feeler gauge
Pic 1 is a 20 ga sold to me as a 2 1/2 chambered gun
Pic 2 is a 12 ga which I thought was 2 3/4 but probably 2 5/8 the way the markings fall compared to the 20 ga
I checked my 16 ga and the markings fall the same as the 20 ga - so that one must be 2 1/2 and currently cannot find shells for.
Clays ammo has them in a container off the coast of Florida.
My plan is to use the light load 2 3/4 shells in the 12 ga
RST 2 1/2 shells in the 20 ga
And continue searching for the 16 ga 2 1/2 shells.
Would love to find shells for the .410 that was just offered for sale, but that may have to wait a while :)

You can certainly shoot 2 3/4” ammo in a Trojan without lengthening chambers. I’ve been doing it in all of my Trojans since 1961…





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Your picture seems to me to show your chambers are 2 5/8", intended for 2 3/4" ammunition.

If they fit in the hull and allow for a good crimp then more power to you. Speaking for my experiences, using standard wads in my 2 1/2” hulls did not result in good crimps. The majority of my 2 1/2” loading is with 16g hulls. I do load 12g too and use short wads for them too.

Please measure your fired shells. I have found many fired cases in 12 and 20 are short. If the ones you shoot measure to your chamber case closed.

My 1927 16 gauge VH has 2 1/2" chambers on a 1 frame. I also shoot other 2 3/4" 16 gauge guns, and I am thinking about lengthening the chambers to 2 3/4# on the Parker, so that I don't have to worry about which cartridge I put in the gun.
Are #1 frame 16 gauge barrels stout enough to lengthen to 2 3/4"?

The Winchester super X one once measure 2 5/8 so do Agular and hearters

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but the Winchester super X game load is what I shoot out of my modern 16 gauge gun. The spent cartridge measures two and three-quarter inches overall and 2 11/16 inches to the base of the rim.
Saami standards measure length from the standing breech.
Those cartridges will extend 1/4 inch beyond the chamber and into the forcing cone when fired.
My question is, “is that safe?”
I certainly don’t know, but I did have the forcing cones lengthened in hopes that it would make using modern ammunition more safe.

After much back and forth and hesitation I sent my 1 frame 16 ga barrels to Michael Orlen in Amherst MA. 413 256 1630
He evaluated and said there was plenty of wall thickness to go ahead and lengthen the chambers. I’m very happy with the outcome. I can use 2 3/4 shells - light loads - that are available locally.
Before lengthening the chambers the gun was sometimes difficult to open as the shells seemed to have been forced backwards and expanded in the chambers after firing.

Well the Winchester 1 once i had measure 2 5/8 the once and 1/8 measured 2 3/4. The way they swap makers there is no telling, but the batch of hulls I was given were short.

My cartridges are 20 years old. Dick's Sporting Goods had a $4.00 price on 16 gauge Winchesters, so I bought all they had (8 flats or so). That's a lifetime supply of game loads, since I don't shoot clays with my 16s!
Lengthening the chambers 1/4" seems the best solution. Thanks.

Steven: to address your question regarding safety of chamber lengthening; it's very likely to be safe.
I had Briley lengthen a 20g Parker with chambers shorter than 2 1/2" without problems. The safety of doing so is entirely related to the end of chamber wall thickness, and most U.S. doubles had generous walls.
That does NOT apply to lightweight British or Continental small bore game guns.

The lengthening must however be done by an expert.
An example of "inexpert" lengthening resulting in a bulge just past the end of the chamber

https://photos.smugmug.com/Barrel-Ev...R%20%234-L.jpg

Mine will be going to Briley too!
Nobody has the precision machining that they do.

I just put one empty on the calipers.
It was 2.722”.
So less than 2 3/4”��
But not by much.

Even 20 gauges?
I just bought an O frame 20 gauge Trojan shooter with 2 1/2” chambers.

Others may disagree but your Trojan 20 has probably seen more 2 3/4" ammo put through it than you might imagine.
I am not afraid to shoot REASONABLE 2 3/4" ammo in my 20 gauge Trojan.






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I am sure you are right.
What percentage of shotgunners even know that 2 1/2” cartridges even exist?
Not to mention that there are no markings on the barrels to indicate chamber length.
I hadn’t thought about it from that perspective.

I had a 1924 Trojan and the chambers were just short of 2 1/2". Recoil with Win AA target loads was wicked. I wasn't smart enough then to check the case mouth for feathering, indicating the mouth entered the forcing cone.

As often posted, today's nominally 2 3/4" shells often are shorter, and I would suggest some dumpster diving at your club and measuring some empties. It would certainly seem reasonable to pick a shorter than 2 3/4" hull. Please let us know if you find one.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Shotshell.../Shells1-M.jpg

I wonder if I made the right decision, but I had the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4” by someone qualified to do it and haven’t worried since.
I still look for the lightest BP load or Arma from Clays. And also use the Winchester low recoil at 980 FPS ( #AA12FL8)

Any thoughts on how these two compare?

They don't compare.





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Clark, for what it’s worth. I shoot between 8000 and 10,000 registered trap targets a year, double that for practice rounds, all with my Parkers. My choices of ammo are 2 3/4 inch, 1 1/8 oz light target loads, 1145 fps, and 1 1/8 oz heavy target loads, 1200 fps, mostly off the shelf at Walmart. I’m not making any recommendations but my Parkers don’t seem to mind.

Wasn’t there a thread on the mini’s? Didn’t they produce higher pressures? Might be worth a search, although I’ll bet someone who knows will eventually chime in.

I bought a flat of the minis to try - they’re not cheap - they felt “hot” that’s why I was asking.
I’ve settled on Fiocchi 1 0z 1140 fps and the bashiere & pellegri 7/8 oz
Very little recoil on the 7/8 oz

Old data but likely close

Aguila 12ga MINISHELL 1 3/4” 5/8 oz. shot @ 1,175 fps - 11,000 psi
Federal 12g SHORTY 1 3/4” 15/16 oz. shot @ 1,145 fps - 9,500 psi