Would someone please just tell me what chokes I need to be an excellent shooter!! :rotf::rotf:

Stan, and others, I don't doubt the veracity of the many comments about tight chokes and shooting clays, but my original post was focused on upland bird hunting. If the "smoke" so often cited equals an exploded bird with ruined meat, that doesn't build any confidence in me that I can bring home birds worthy of a good meal (and not waste something I consider precious).

Please don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing with the statements about tight chokes and their relationship to promoting good shooting habits on clays. When you're in classic woodcock cover and you are able (not always the case) to raise the gun on a bird about to helicopter away at maybe 15 yards, give me open chokes. I might get the bird and in doing so, not ruin the meat (although any choke with a direct hit at close range is bad news for the night's dining).

And, if using open chokes was a remedy for poor shooting, the vast majority of guns offered to the public would have them, don't you think? Why has the standard choking on field guns evolved away from full/full to something more like ic/mod?

As I read Stan's post it also reminds me of a caveat I forgot to make at the outset -- my choke recommendations don't include the .410. I'll take Stan's recommendations on best chokes to use on doves.:bowdown:

I should also note that although I have come up with what I think might be the best choking for upland guns over a range of game, I very often shoot original condition guns that have tight chokes and am not willing to alter them out of respect for their originality.

Although I prefer real tight chokes for the fun factor, occasionally I will shoot a round of sporting clays with a 16 or 20 gauge Parker with improved cylinder and modified chokes. I am then amazed at how well I shoot guns that are not equipped with my preferred tight chokes.

I know one is not supposed to answer rhetorical questions, but I think this is actually a good one. However, I'm not an excellent shooter, but a hunter who tries to take shots that I can cleanly make at birds that I dearly love.

Also read the article by McIntosh and experimented on a pattern plate and found light choke of 3 to 7 thou provided a woodcock and grouse killing pattern out to 40 yards with 7/8 oz. in the 20 and 1 oz. in the 16.
Most places i hunt seeing a bird at 40 yards is not probable. Most shots are from 15 to 30 yards. On a few occasions i have made clean kills at 40 to 45 yards on both grouse and woodcock and found 3 to 6 pellet strikes in the body cavity.
I have come to the conclusion over the years that a shotgun pattern is a random hope you throw in the air and it will do what it will on that attempt and not repeat that again. They are like snowflakes, no 2 alike and if you point it well it will get the job done.
Same gun ,shell ,bird and shot one stone dead the next the chase is on, no accounting for it by any quantifiable means.

Daniel, well said. This may go on my gravestone.

If needed permission is granted for your use. Thank you.

Great -- thank you...my wife may start the stone any day now.:rotf::rotf:

I keep it simple, and try to use a gun that is choked for what I expect to see while hunting, if I expect mostly close shooting, I like a IC/M choked gun, if distant shooting M/F. That said, sometimes the birds don't agree with my expectations and instead of close tight cover shots, all I get is long open field shots all day. :D

Turkeys are about the only bird where I know F/F will work just fine. :D

Blind hunting ducks over the stool, I really like a LM/IM setup if I'm using steel. Used that for years out of a Citori with good results.

I knew MM, and remember him saying that.
I invited him to a private pigeon shoot, and told him we could test that "choke boring is obsolete" theory on a 30 bird race.
I offered to buy his birds even, but told him there would be some money up on the outcome. It never happened.
MM knew his stuff on shotguns though, and was a great gunwriter.

Interesting, Todd. I really have always suspected that he wrote that just to ruffle some feathers. He was actually active on the DGJ forum at that time and i approached him there about the statement. He never answered . :nono: Long, long time ago. I wish Mac was still among us.

He was a good guy, but had some demons. But then again, who among us is perfect?
We had him set to come out for pigeons three different times, but something came up every time.

Anyone who taught college English to first year students is bound to have had demons.:) He and his buddy, Spencer Turner (who I knew from running field trials), hunted in our area quite a bit, and they both worked for our Conservation Department (his early book on American doubles is based out of a series of articles he wrote for the Missouri Conservationist). I wish I had run across them back then...when there were still a few coveys around.

You should have heard the stories of his and Dave Trevallion’s shenanigans on their trips to England and Russia… sorry, I’m sworn to secrecy.






.

I recall a trip he mentioned he was planning for somewhere in South America. He said it was to be a "mission trip". I messaged him and asked what type mission trip. He replied he was going down to help out the farmers with their "pest control", referring to doves and pigeons. :rotf:

Gentlemen, this has been an excellent forum discussion. Thanks to Garry and all who contributed to it. It has been very educational, and many of the points brought out were very thought provoking. Not to mention the humor that is thrown in. It makes being a member of this fine group a very enjoyable experience as well as being so educational on these very special shotguns.....