Me thinks Richard meant 1150 fps!!

I have collected pictures of fifteen 12-gauge Parker hang tags and I can make no sense out of why some are targeted with 1 1/8-ounce loads and others with 1 1/4-ounce loads. Some state "Use Shells 2 5/8 Long" and others state "Use Shells 2 3/4 Long".

The earlier tags, below about 150000, have a line above that states "Length of Shell X x/x Inch", always filled in 2 5/8?!?

Just to be a little more irritating a couple of tags show the gun being targeted with bulk smokeless powder and the load is given in grains.

Richard,

Even though these discussions are a repeat of others over the years, I find them fascinating. To Researcher's point, even documentation/advice on hang tags is very confusing. In my estimation, chamber length, as a safety concern, is overstated.

For example, I just measured a John Dickson 12 ga. with documented/proofed 2.5" chambers. However, my chamber gauge tool measures them a little more than 2 9/16. I also measured a James Woodward 12 ga. which is documented/proofed at 2.5" but I measure them at 2 5/8. These are documented guns from notable gunmakers where both went through proofing houses. Yet, the chambers are definitely not exactly 2.5". Obviously, these were not lengthened to 2 3/4.

Then if you add in the differences in shell length after the shot, we get many different lengths of spent shells, even though they may be marketed as a 2 3/4 length. My point is an AA shell is 2 11/16 long after firing. Should I be concerned about 1 or 2/16's overlap in my expensive Dickson/Woodward guns which were only proofed at 2.5"? The answer is no for me, as I know my barrel condition is good.

My recommendation is to concern yourself with condition of your barrels first and go have fun 2nd. The chamber length in most cases is a distant concern. That does not mean to disregard pressure or velocity in your determination.

I agree Dean.

A few of Morris’s loads are 1150 psi.






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In my opinion, wall thickness at the juncture of the chamber and the beginning of the forcing cone is far, far more critical than chamber length differences of a sixteenth or an eighth of an inch.





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I now have her in my hands
 

Attachment 115014

Attachment 115015

Attachment 115016


I tried a few times with the paper trick of sliding it to touch the start of the force cone with no luck for me , I could feel it good enough

It sure looks longer then 2 1/2 inch to me , I’m going to search out someone who has a chamber measuring device

The bores looked really good

and this took my breath away when I unboxed it after work , it’s more then I could of hoped for , the colours in the CCH is so nice , looks like a old patina on it
1910 Parker , 30 inch barrels ,
I can’t wait to shoot it ,

Handsome gun, very nice!

I've seen a letter reference from a principal at Parker to Capt. Charles Askins and dated in the 20's that states unequivocally that Parker chambered 12ga guns to 2-5/8" and intended for 2-3/4" shells at factory pressure level. I'll look for it later and will post the content if I can find it.

Please do find it , that will put my mind at ease ,
Thanks

Richard - Poor man's answer. If you have a small machinist's rule, turn it on its edge and slide it into the chamber until it begins to reach the chamber neck, and light will show between the rule and the chamber wall. Read the rule. Bingo

Excerpt from the reply letter from Parker Brothers to Capt Charles Askins:

“Replying to your letter of December 17th [1920] …... Referring to the cone, we ordinarily permit our shells to lap into it 1/8-inch but as a matter of fact we have found that the majority of guns will shoot a better pattern with even more lap than this. …… In user’s hands we do not advocate the use of longer shells than those which give 1/8 lap.

Parker Brothers, per W. A. King”

The chambers in my 1898 DH 12 with Titanic Steel barrels are 2 9/16” and when I shoot 2 3/4” AA’s in it the very tips of my fired shells are pinched… even to the extent of being pinched off. The felt recoil is only a smidge more than when I shoot 2 1/2” shells of equal loading.





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Would someone 'not from around heuh' understand this?

Hmmm…

How about an increase in felt recoil of .017 ft. lbs. ?





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Are we really to think that 2/16" or even 3/16" encroachment of thin plastic into the largest end of a tapered forcing cone would have any effect at all on pressure? I'm going with "I don't think there is any effect on pressure whatever".































































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Photo 1 is from DGJ, referring to a preceding article mentioning 300psi as a common pressure rise.

If a person has a gun that is on the edge of decrepitude , I suppose a 300 psi rise might be too much.

The next 2 photos are from Parker brochures .