I was looking up some brass shell info a few months ago and saw that Rocky Mountain Cartridge has a limited supply of any brass shells. They also advertise that the equipment and/or business is for sale. Looks like the plandemic/supply chain issues caught up with them too. :banghead::crying:

Mike, their business has always been listed for sale as I recall. I wouldn't hesitate to place an order as they do great work.

Can you use the same dipper for shot and powder?

Yes but different settings for each and only to be used for black powder!!!!





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So maybe a stupid question but I see there are dippers with measurements for powder and ones for shot if a person was only to use one which one should a guy use? Just curious.

First I would figure out what load you want. A light target load, heavy hunting load or something in the middle? The dippers you mentioned are often marked in drams(for powder) and in ounces(for shot).

You might run across the term "square load" which is the same setting for both powder and shot. So a scoop of powder and a scoop of shot that are the same amount by volume.

In my experience you want a little more powder than shot. Though I have done well shooting square loads and that is not a bad place to start(See attached picture) If you wanted to go shoot some clays and get a feel for the gun, I might start out with:

3 drams of 2f and 1 1/8oz of shot(that is nice light target load)

For reference, my 10 gauge hunting load is 4 drams of 2f and 1 3/8oz of shot

There are a lot of good sources online including You Tube. Load up some shells, give it a try and let us know how much fun you are having!

That helps a lot thank you for the info!

“You might run across the term "square load" which is the same setting for both powder and shot. So a scoop of powder and a scoop of shot that are the same amount by volume”.
I use “square loads” for clay pigeons.
Keep in mind (Very Important) Square Loads are for Black Powder use only.

On more suggestion on this...load up some different shells with differences in powder, shot and wads and pattern it. Most fiber wads you buy are 1/2" think, I cut those in half but then put both halves in the shells. I get a much better pattern, The 1/2" wad as whole seems to push through the shot and the pattern is awful.

There is some trial and error to this that is a lot of fun to figure out. Here is the order I would load into a 10 gauge primed shell for target shooting:

1. 3 drams of 2f black powder(I also like 1 1/2f)
2. 1 - 9 gauge 1/8" nitro card
3. 2 - 1/4" 9 gauge fiber wads made from a cut 1/2" wad, use both halves and I lube with bore butter or some other type of black powder lube.(you used to be able to buy these already lubed and I use those if I still have them).
4. 1 - 9 gauge overshot card on the wads(I like the shot on a clean surface).
5. 1 1/8oz of shot
6. 1 - 9 gauge overshot card glue in with ducco cement.

The best resource I found for me was: https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...BOOK-HL-10-BSS

There are some hot hunting loads in there(that work well), but you can load down for target shooting. It is such a valuable resource and I believe the author is a PGCA member.

Good luck! Every time I think about black powder shooting it makes me want to organize a hummer gun hunting trip...a few of us should get together and do this! Shooting the shells/loads our hammer guns would have shot when new.

So I’m in the process of getting all the supplies I’ll need to start shooting this spring and I know with black powder it’s really important to clean the gun as soon after shooting as you can but I am curious how in depth of a cleaning is needed after shooting it? Does the whole gun need to be disassembled or not quite that detailed of a cleaning? And what’s best practice for the cushion was to have lubed or not lubed? I’ve read on people doing it both ways..

Soap & hot water on a patch over a bore brush, dry and oil. Shouldn’t take over 10 minutes. Simplicity and inexpensive.

So just soak a patch in hot soapy water and then dry out good and oil it up inside and out of the barrels?

Soapy patches until nice and clean. You can alternate soap/dry, may be a bit faster. Finish with an oil patch followed with a dry one.

Is there any particular oil that is better for old double guns or is any gun oil fine?

My experience has been that lubed wads are much easier to load in the brass shells. The lube also leaves a coating on the bores that may help with cleanup. Cleaning black powder is not that big of deal. A person can use just warm water and a patch. Ballistol or Gunzilla are two gun cleaning products I have used without water that do a very good job as well. Another product that muzzleloaders have found works well is Windex with Vinegar. You can buy that in a spray bottle at your local Walmart. I will use this between shots when shooting muzzleloader rifles to clean up the fowling. If I use water I then always run a 90% alchohol patch down the bores to remove any remaining moisture before oiling.

Birchwood Casey Barricade or Clenzoil are my go to oils for the bores

Jacob, why not be easy on yourself and shoot modern powders loaded to produce appropriate pressures?





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I didn’t think you could shoot smokeless powder in these old Damascus barreled shotguns.. is that not the case?

Jacob:

Black powder can be fun, but a hassle. My 10 gauge lifter sees smokeless powder 95 percent of the time. Here’s my preferred load, which uses the readily available WSF:

https://parkerguns.org/forums/showth...&highlight=WSF

-Victor

I was gonna be using track of the wolf brass 2 5/8 hulls and all the other components from them like the circle fly wads they sell. Will all those components still work with the smokeless powder?

A little off topic but I’m gonna be getting the letter for my gun and was unsure on the butt type. Mine just has a metal butt plate would that just be considered a recoil pad?

no a metal butt plate is not considered a recoil pad....a recoil psd is usally made out of rubber or some thing soft to help absorb recoil... charlie

Ok so what would it be classified as? A DHBP or a skeleton? Per the research letter request for?

re: butt plate
 

Plain metal
Skeleton
Dogs head

Jacob,
Smokeless does not work very well in brass hull loading. There needs to be constant pressure put on the components and powder for ignition of smokeless powder to be consistent which is hard to do when gluing in the components into the brass. Black powder ignites easier and with a smaller primer. The other problem you run into with smokeless is knowing the pressures of what you are loading. If you stick with standard black powder loads you do not need to worry about high pressure, but with smokeless you won't know what you are getting for pressure. If you decide to go smokeless you need to find tested recipes and get the components for those recipes. Don't let having to clean up the barrels after shooting deter you from black powder. It is fun to shoot and load.

I have three different Parkers, a 10 ga. Lifter, a 12 ga. Lifter and a 16 ga. Lifter, all chambered for metallic shells that I regularly shoot 2 3/4” modern plastic-hulled shells in… without harm in any way to the barrels. I shoot low-pressure loads exclusively.





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Dean,
I shoot low pressure smokeless loads all the time in my Damascus barreled Parkers as well. The problem at the moment is in regards to 10 Gauge and being able to get the components to do this. That's one reason I do shoot black powder in 10 gauge. The components for black powder shooting have been more available.

Jacob, I shoot BP shotgun loads in BP events and occasionally for hunting. If you are shooting a break-action gun, just remove the bbls from the action, boil some water in a teapot, slowly pour the boiled water down the bores in a slop sink. I use a "Tico Tool" type bore swab and swab the very hot bbls. Then I'll run a few dry patches through followed by lubed patches to coat the bbls with a good oil such as Clenzoil. It's really a quick and easy clean up that takes less than 5 minutes (not including boiling the water). The hotter the water, the easier the clean up as the hot water basically evaporates off the bbls.

As for smokeless shells in Damascus guns, as long as the bores haven't been honed thin and the bores are not badly pitted, you should have no problem shooting 2 3/4 dram 1 oz shells in a 12g and 2 1/2 dram 7/8-3/4 oz in 16 & 20g. Avoid heavy field loads and you and you vintage stocks will be fine.

What would be a good load for a 10 gauge? Say for just regular clays shooting and a good turkey hunting load. That’s my main plans for this gun, fun shooting and turkey hunting maybe pheasants also.

22.5g Unique, SP 10 wad with a 16g 1/2" wad set in the shot cup followed by 1 1/4 oz shot. Topped with a fold crimp. If using a roll crimp top the shot with an overshot card then roll.

I also have data for using 7625, but that powder is discontinued. If you have some I can give you those recipes.

Jacob, I also have a grade 2 lifter in the 13,000 s/n range, and as Mike notes, your gun has what appears to be extra factory engraving on the breech balls and at the top of the metal buttplate. Makes for an interesting and desireable gun, IMHO. Congratulations.

I'm cleaning up a friends grandfathers 1877 10 ga lifter for display only. rough shape. I am looking for a rt side hammer and two hammer screws. I can usually find obsolete parts , but i need some help if anyone knows a site that might have these. Thanks

Tom Carter makes perfect hammer screws.





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Thanks

Mark - show us a picture of the left hammer so we can look to see if we have one with the same engraving. Some of us have spare hammers stashed away....





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I have measured a lot different loads I use and cut a piece of 1/2 in hard copper pipe, hammer one end flat, solder end. I drill a hole for a leather string, then size the load with a measure, cut and polish the copper. inert and doesn't rust. For shooting not for show.

left lift hammer
 

Im not very tech savy. it said it is attached

Sorry Mark I have three right hammers but none are even close to that one.





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Thank for looking

Dean, I talked with my friend he is will to purchase a matching set with screws if you can point me in that direction. I contacted Tom Carter via email ,but have not heard anything. Thank you.