Kevin,

Like Dave said, I’m not aware that Platinum was ever used, the guns I’ve seen were all Grade 5’s that had Silver, I’ve not observed a higher grade with Silver, although I think the Grade 6 guns had some Silver on the detail of the Indian archer on the side.

The manufacturer’s would of course build a gun to a customers specs, so I guess Platinum could have been requested.

There was a gentleman on this site who recently purchased a NID 5E trap gun with the Silver birds, he suggested that they’re Platinum?

I would have to seek an expert to tell me the difference, I do not know how to tell the difference.

Stan

Kevin gave us an entertaining post about some of his experiences in an earlier time. The "Ralph Luttrell" he mentions was my boss in the late sixties when I was in my early twenties and the general manager of the National Capitol Skeet and Trap club and Mr. Luttrell was the president of the club and responsible for hiring me. My recollection is similar to Kevin's experience with Mr. Luttrell, who once gave me a Model 97 trap gun and a box of shells and sent me to the field for a test round. The gun was defective, would not lock in place to fire and was a potential death trap. I returned the gun to him with the comment that the gun "needed some work".

Stan and other readers, did you notice that the Ithaca order not only contains 20% of the total production of Sousa Grade Knicks, but also contains another rarity, a Knick with a Cutts Compensator?

I did notice that Bill,

what an awful abomination to ruin the looks of a great trap gun:eek:

Maybe you like them, I have no experience with them and I think I’ll just stay with shooting poorly before I resort to trying something as ugly as that.

I apologize if I stepped on any toes,

Stan

More Pictures
 

This is one of the greatest threads of the past 3 months, but it is beginning to test my patience severely! We need to see MORE pictures of these great Ithaca SBTs and more definitive information

Kevin,

I will do my best to oblige with more pictures later this evening. I wish I could show you a Sousa grade like Bill has, but unfortunately I parted with a 7E and a Sousa 12 years ago, thought I needed to utilize the money other places:cuss:

Stan

Thumbing through the NID pictures I've saved, I still see silver birds on No. 5Es to 453707 --

Attachment 108562

and gold birds by 455765 --

Attachment 108563

Flues Try Gun
 

Kevin,
We may be able to get this one adjusted to fit you:)

I would think this one was probably a regular at the Grand American and probably adjusted for many different shooters.

Was it easier to build the adjustable stock around the straight grip, or why the straight grip? I know the English grip was fairly common on the Flues SBT.

I just wonder what happened to the original barrels, were they damaged while shooting or….. I’ve been watching for a 34” Flues barrel that is reasonably close in serial number, tried a few, but haven’t located one that fits better than the one it currently wears.

I would have to double check if Walt stated that the Ithaca inlays are Silver in his book, I think they are Silver.

Stan I assume you own this great A. P. Curtis try gun. What a great gun. A local collector owned a Curtis gun like the one pictured for many years, offered it for sale for around $1500 and had a rough time getting a buyer. I'm sorry I missed out. Can you remember the serial number of your Sousa so I can add it to my list if it isn't already there?

Bill,

The try gun is aspecial one and yes, I am the caretaker of it currently. I will have to put that serial # up, maybe someone can help me out with a barrel that fits better.

The Knick Sousa was serial # 400355T

Stan

Thanks, Stan. I have that Sousa serial number in my files. I don't think we will ever find that more than 10 Sousa Knicks exist since Walt Snyder searched the records for me well into the Dollar Grade era and didn't find any more Sousas. Are you saying that the barrel on your Curtis gun is not the one that was made for it at time of manufacture?

That’s correct Bill,
the barrel currently on the Curtis Try gun is not the original, it is on face but was never fitted properly. I’ve tried different Flues barrels on it and I was surprised how the contour of where the barrel meets the action varies very much from one gun to the next.

I’ve included a few pictures of a Grade 6 Flues with some close pictures of the engraving and the different inlays. This gun was restocked and recase colored as it was pretty poor condition when I bought it.
The white/silver inlay seems to be much lighter than my other guns with Silver inlay, could it be white Gold?

At Grade 6, I would think the inlays are yellow and white gold, similar to the combination used on the Sousa. Also, to answer your question about straight grip try guns, my Curtis GH try gun is a pistol grip, all wood from the original gun.

The inlays on my 5E Knick are silver I guess. According to Walt Snyder it went to Phil Bekheart in San Francisco in 1929.

https://i.imgur.com/da8wvGLl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VtB28mWl.jpg

Here are some pictures of my 7E.
 

Thought I would post some pictures of my 7E while I try and cool off from the heat.

Knick 5E’s w/ Silver Inlays
 

I snapped a few pictures of my 2 Knicks with Silver inlaid birds. Your 5E looks very similar Phil, are we close on serial #?

Upper one is serial #401718
Lower one is serial #401700

Stan, mine's 401852

By the way, I was noticing the difference in trigger guard shapes on your two 5E's. Anything about that you'd care to share?

Good eye Phil,
I missed the shape of the trigger guard completely. I do know I was intrigued how the trigger on the upper gun is engraved/knurled from edge to edge, perhaps requested by the original owner, or changed by a later owner?

I was too busy comparing the engraving and the shapes of the birds, I’ve found subtle differences but they look to be by the same engraver.

The one difference I picked up on is in the border, was this perhaps done by an apprentice or junior engraver and then the birds done by a senior engraver?

Stan

Mr Hoover, VERY cool gun. I’m no expert, but have never seen a similar grip on an Ithaca SBT. Another beautiful custom job from Fall Creek! Enjoy. I just picked up a 4E NID from a collector (not shooter) that is in beautiful condition. Nice picture of you and my friend Craig Larter on the Parker pages!
Best, john Wayman

Walt Snyder informed me that a soft pencil eraser will shine up the gold and silver inlays without damaging them. I tried that on my 7E Flues SBT and was amazed how the inlays really popped afterward!!

Mr Hoover, VERY cool gun. I’m no expert, but have never seen a similar grip on an Ithaca SBT. Another beautiful custom job from Fall Creek! Enjoy. I just picked up a 4E NID from a collector (not shooter) that is in beautiful condition. Nice picture of you and my friend Craig Larter on the Parker pages!
Best, john Wayman