Originally Posted by harry gietler (Post 310736)

Here are a few more words of wisdom from Askins book The popularity of the 16ga. is about on a par with death and taxes. The 20ga. on the other hand remains fairly popular shooting iron. However, there isnt anything you can do with a 20ga. that cannot be accomplished with twice the efficiency swinging a 12ga. Next we come to the stinking poor 28 and 410 ga.the unparalleled bird cripplers and the most efficient wounder of game. Harry ps. shoot 12 ga.guns, the king of the gauges

Originally Posted by Rick Losey (Post 310808)

Bert Spiller the poet laureate of upland hunting hunted grouse with a 10 gauge - must have been as good as 2 20's if he used one.

Originally Posted by John Davis (Post 310802)

Yes, sub-gauges are fun to shoot and easy to carry. Yes, many of today's put and take quail preserves don't allow anything bigger than a 20 gauge. Why would you when you've either got to literally kick the bird up or send in a flushing dog to get something even close to a covey rise? And yes, sub-gauges seem to be the latest rage among collectors these day's.

But the fact remains that the 12 is and has been for the past 150 years the most popular gauge to shoot. It overtook and supplanted the 10 and it withstood the advent of all other smaller gauges. There is a reason that 99% of all guns used for trap are 12's. If you didn't have sub-gauge events in skeet and sporting clays, the same would be true for those disciplines as well. And with the opening day of dove season just around the corner, a vast majority of the guns you'll see in the field will be 12's.

So to be clear, I love a 16, 20 and 28 gauge as much as anyone. I enjoy shooting them in pursuit of most upland game. But if I'm going to travel a thousand miles to shoot wild birds in South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas or anywhere else, I'm probably going to be shooting a 12 gauge.

Originally Posted by Dean Romig (Post 310832)

Spiller only used his Dad's 10 until he could buy a gun of his own which was a 12, then later a 16, (*) finally settling on a 20 gauge VHE that was found for him by his grouse hunting crony Gorham L. "Grampa Grouse" Cross.

(*) Spiller actually ordered a very fine 20 or 28 from a very prestigious American maker, though he never said who it was. But did say he ordered it to be extremely light, hence the barrels were very thin. While crossing a stream on an icy morning he slipped and both he and his little gun went ass over teakettle and were both submerged and the barrels of his pride and joy got severely dented. .

Originally Posted by John Davis (Post 310887)

In skeet "Twelve gauge events shall be open to all guns of 12 gauge or smaller, using shot loads not exceeding one and one-eighth ounces." Just curious as to how many top shooters choose to shoot a .410 in a 12 gauge event? Payload has a little something to do with it, whether you are on the line or in the field.

Originally Posted by Rich Anderson (Post 310903)

Upland guns are special and there is no perfect gun except the next one or your buddy's gun that you covet.I'm a big fan of 16,20 and 28 and admit to owning more of them than I can shoot. My typical trip to the U.P. consists of 8-10 guns for the 5 weeks I'm there. This year will be different in that I'll be just taking long weekends but will alternate between guns and gauges so most get a turn.
My preferred barrel length is 26 and choked IC/M or SKT/SKT. I recently adopted a VHE 20 skeet with a factory vent rib which will get a work out.
I'll hunt a couple of times with a 12 :shock: but in my defense it's a British light game gun and I use RST 2 inch shells with 3/4 oz of 8's. Just like a 28.

Originally Posted by Harry Neil (Post 310886)

Hard to make that argument for skeet when the TOP skeet shooters are averaging .99% plus with the sub gauges....even with the .410..
International Olympic skeet is shot with a 24gram load and the averages didn't change when they dropped down from the 28gram load..

The target distance for skeet more frequently represents chances in the field.
For the most part it is one pointing ability that determines their success and not the gauge...

And, for those that are willing to pay the additional for TSS shot, any advantage the 12 had is gone. With TSS some are stoning Turkey’s at 40 yards with the 410.. it isn’t you Grandad’s uplands any more..

Trap is a different situation in that the distance is further, which gives an edge to the 12..

Originally Posted by Mills Morrison (Post 310938)

Shoot whatever and we can still be friends, just as long as you don't shoot 12 gauge steel shot no. 4 at quail. A guide friend said someone actually did that

Originally Posted by Harry Neil (Post 310897)

Well none do, and curious or not you knew that, and you would choose the most extremes to make your point.

However, This NSSA Classification chart is reveling with what the great pointers can do with each gauge.

NSSA CLASSIFICATION TABLES
Revised & Effective April 22, 2014
OPEN INDIVIDUAL CLASSES
Class
12
20
28
.410

AAA*
.9850 & Over
.9825 & Over
.9800 & Over
.9650 & Over

So let’s take 12 to 28, and the difference is 0.005 in hit percentage in favor of the 12 between the two gauges in AAA Class. I guess I have to admit you win.

Originally Posted by Harry Neil (Post 310946)

Recoil....

It’s all good, and the 12 will almost always beat the smaller gauges by a little margin. Skeet averages across the board usually prove it. However, I don’t see it making any significant difference at typical upland shooting 30 yards and under.

Originally Posted by Mills Morrison (Post 310940)

Yikes!

Originally Posted by Steven Groh (Post 310939)

I was in Cabelas the other day, looking at ammo, and a guy and his son were wandering around looking confused. I asked him what he was looking for and he said, "3 inch shells."

I asked, "for what?" and he replied, "For dove shooting. My gun says 3" on the barrel."

There's not enough mentoring going on out there.

Originally Posted by Mike Koneski (Post 311289)

16, 20 and 28 but primarily 16s and SxS guns from Parker or Lefever.

Originally Posted by Daryl Corona (Post 311298)

I hear tell Fox makes a dandy 16 and 20 for upland hunting especially with those fancy setters of yours out in front.:cool:

Originally Posted by Mike Koneski (Post 311338)

Since I sold them all it’s hard to hunt with a Fox! My go to was a 16 Fox SW for years. It canceled many a flight. ��

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro (Post 311372)

And then Tool Man loaned you that nice 16 Sterly Ejector gun to compete in the Upland Gun Challenge at last year's VGC. :banghead: :rotf:

Originally Posted by bob weeman (Post 311375)

A six and one quarter pound 12 gauge Remington 1894 with 26 inch barrels. Wearing a lace on leather pad making it a Monte Carlo type set up. Choked modified and full. I have some Briley short tubes I throw in from time to time which pattern more openly and very well. Still like the 12 too with the tighter chokes. I will also be trying a Lefever 24 inch 12 this year. A bit heavier and also choked modified and full. I will probably shoot some spreaders in it but as is I have very good luck with it on my home clay set up. I have posted the clay set up here before with the trip wires and various angles I can do. Seems to be a pretty good testing ground. I have some changes in mind to make it better too. Will have to have some of you local guys up sometime for an informal shoot....