Mr. Lein:
I rest my case with regard in your "BBS Approach" to my observations. And respectfully refer you -- and the Forum Moderator -- to these points from "Forum Decorum":


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Have a Blessed Palm Sunday.

Last I will ever say it, and I'm done with this thread, but those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones, you werent the only one to frequent the BBS and as I recall you also broke a few windows until a few of yours got broken. Not a good idea to decry the actions of others that reflect your own. And with that have a blessed Palm Sunday!

Sorry John,
This is one of those times we tend to disagree

Folks, when I last checked this thread early last evening - I really respected the maturity and tenor of all the posts on a very difficult subject. My sincerest thanks for that and hope that all parties are able to resolve it to their satisfaction and everyones reputation and resolve well intact....

In the meantime however and later last night - let's not fall off the proverbial "turnip truck" and force the closure of this thread.

Finally - I don't know - nor do I care - what happened on another BBS. That BBS is not this community, nor will I let it became that BBS.

Have a wonderful day,

John D.

[QUOTE=Patrick Lien;271525]Bruce,
How much Flitz did it take to get Bachelder colors toned down to be comparable to original faded Parker colors?

Patrick Lien[/QUOTE

Zero.

But I did wear a leather cattleman’s roping glove and rub rotationally side to side on the frame for a little while to produce wear on the edges. I suppose Flitz would have worked faster and I do favor it’s use on dulled barrels or dull browned frames to bring out some luster. I have suggested folks use Flitz or other metal polish on garishly done case colors.

What do you suggest ? I know that you have nice guns and good skills.

Joe, the best advice relating to this thread is from Edgar Spencer. I tried to fix the barreled actions made in Italy of the first Ithaca Classic Doubles after heat treat. I failed. Italian gunsmiths were flown to Victor, NY and spent two weeks attempting to salvage those actions, they failed. The problem was caused by poor machining practice, but the heat treat was the demise of those actions. The barreled actions were made by Merkel in Germany, thereafter. If your determined to repair the gun you may want to seek legal advice first as you may give up your right to compensation.

Mr. Graziano is to be commended. What makes the world crazy is complacency. If Mr. Graziano had not brought his experience to the board, he would have been corrupted by making it a hide.

Edgar is spot on... as usual when it comes to matters of metal. I was sitting thinking pretty much what he wrote before I read his post. I wouldn't spend another penny on this one. I'd salvage usable internal parts and give the frame to someone to use as an example of just how wrong things can go and move on. I wouldn't waste my time going after anyone for anything; Life is just too short for that. I'm sitting here now wishing I had my families VH12 that needs a stock and the top rib re-layed so I could send it to Joe so he could try again.

I meet with Mr. Graziano at the gun show this weekend and gave him my VH Parker frame witch I was saving to engrave and if Joe need any other parts no problem.I have worked with Classic Guns for many years and never had any problems Mr. Gillette has health problems and not been able to watch over the work I will make this right. J.J.Roberts

I had not heard of Mr. Roberts before, so I did a little Internet research. Nowhere did I see anything negative. Quite the contrary. He has a lot of great reviews, and testimonials.
We can only guess where this went wrong, but appears JJ is on track to make it right.
I'm glad I kept my mouth/keyboard shut.
When I was in business, we learned that sometimes it's more about how you handle screw-ups, than how well you did on your great deeds

+ 10,000

That is correct. Since this is now in the open, I will confirm. I met with Mr. Roberts at the gun show this weekend. He gave me a VH frame, though I am not sure the size. My gun is built on a #2 frame. We agreed that, pending the outcome of the gun’s evaluation, it would be repaired, if it is repairable. My Roberts agreed that he would pay the cost of those repairs. If it is not repairable, if it is possible to use the VH frame he provided to rebuild the gun, Mr. Roberts would perform the engraving work on it and pay the cost of rebuilding the gun on that frame. What remains to be discussed, is what to do if the gun is not repairable and the provided frame will not work. It would be preferable for that discussion to take place in private but I am happy to be transparent in that as well. As I said, I will post more after the gun is evaluated.

To update the thread, the gun is a total loss. It was case hardened without being annealed. The frame is warped well beyond repair. Reassembling onto another frame is not possible.

Damn, and just a few months ago I sold a GH and a DH for cheap money that you could have used. Was it just the frame or also the barrels

Huh... then how was the name removed the frame polished and the engraving recut without it being annealed? Not that it could not physically be done, but annealing is a critical step to be done first being any of that sort of work is done.

I guess the most direct way to end this quickly is for you to find a nice VH in a similar condition to your original gun and have the gunsmiths purchase it for you. No fuss, no muss, and it's all over in the time it takes to ship the gun to you. For someone to "build you a gun from parts" can be a long, drawn out and heartbreaking project, both for you and JJ. This is just my suggestion to make it easy for everyone and let everyone depart friends.

Brian, according to J.D. he spot anneals a surface he is going to touch up using a copper plate and torch. I guess it is well known trick among engravers.

Craig, I don't know who this (JD) guy is, but annealing a spot on a gun won't solve the many problems with this gun.

Bill, you don't need to know who J.D. is but I know Brian knows him well. My reply is a direct response to Brians post and if the knowledge expressed benefits members, fine. If you read Brians post you'll notice he questions why annealing was not incorporate when the engraving repairs were made. I gave him a reason and wanted him to know the source so that he could find out more if he chooses for the future. J.D. is one of the finest engravers in the country, to my knowledge has NEVER advertised to seek commissions, is a very private person, is semi retired, and a good friend. Enough said.

Well - that's it....

This thread is closed for now. All seemed back on track between Joe and J.J. - and both have my complements and well done....

This thread will only be reopened if Joe or JJ have anything further to add and let me know with a PM.

Have a nice evening.

John D.

And with my post above - I'm going to paraphrase what Joe Private Messaged me a bit ago. He would like you all to know this:

I couldn't have said it better myself - and I would like to thank both Joe and J.J. and all who constructively participated during a somewhat difficult thread...

This thread will remain closed.

John D.