I was going to send my bore back to H&R to do the single trigger conversion to double triggers. But the guy in their NY city store couldn't tell me how much it would cost and the timeframe, so I decided to defer it. But I will send it back at some point. A H&H side by side looks all wrong with a single trigger. Damn Americans, many don't know how a London Best should be configured. A single trigger and beavertail on a London best????? The work of the devil himself!

Excuse me?....Really?....in any context!






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No offense to fellow Americans, but when I see a London best gun with a horrid beavertail and single trigger I know that few self respecting Englishmen would order a gun that way. I am half English on my mother's side so maybe that's why I find it so hard to take. I am a proud American, my family lived in your town of Andover from 1645 to 1826 when they moved to Wilmington, Vermont. Farnum road is named after my grandfather (8). So no offense, but geez, I like to see London best guns in their native attire.

I have a lovely Prussian Lindner hammer pigeon gun with Infallible trigger and beavertail forend. The owner, from Crumpton, Maryland on the Eastern Shore, shot this gun in pigeon and trap competition into the 1920s.

Somehow they escaped the witch trials of 1692-93 where more people in Andover were accused, sent to Salem, tried and put to death than residents of Salem, else you might not be with us today.

I have a cute little 28 gauge DHE with an original beavertail that I find preferable in the uplands to a splinter when wearing gloves.





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[QUOTE=Dean Romig;255033]Somehow they escaped the witch trials of 1692-93 where more people in Andover were accused, sent to Salem, tried and put to death than residents of Salem, else you might not be with us today.

I have a cute little 28 gauge DHE with an original beavertail that I find preferable in the uplands to a splinter when wearing gloves.



My comments are a bit over the top and tongue in cheek. But I hate to see a beavertail and single trigger on a London Best gun. It looks unnatural. I never did like them on a field Parker, but to each his own.

As far as the witch trials, my grandfather, Ralph Farnum Jr, was a grand juryman for the beginning of the hearings in 1692, but died before rendering service. Ralph III and his brother John were summoned on July 30, 1692 to appear as witnesses against Martha Carrier of Andover who was tried for witchcraft and who was hanged August 19, 1692. I have a record of their testimony and the back story passed down through the family and the text of a period letter written by a cousin describing the impact on the family. It is fascinating and not what you would expect.

The DuBray gun certainly has the potential to fetch a handsome sum, Like Dean says I do not know of any other High grade Parker with the associated provenance as of this date. This gun will be watched by many, some bidders and others just wondering what it will go for. Morphys has done a good job marketing the piece as should be. Gary

To be clear, Morphy’s had nothing to do with the Parker Pages article other than to very kindly provide pictures when asked.






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Hardly anyone would give the Dubray name the time of day except for the efforts of Ed M.

There are some who may argue that point Bill, but I'm not one of them. In fact, I alluded to your point in the PP article.






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[QUOTE=Tom Flanigan;255044]I would love to read the text of letter. Maybe you could post it over on the "Off Topic forum.

How old was your grandfather when he died. Had to be at least 150. Ha!

Read " Lock, Stock, & Barrel " by Cyril Adams & Robert Braden

[QUOTE=Tom Flanigan;255044]Yeah, Tom, it is a bit over the top what you said, I have a H&H 16 made in the 30's that has a single trigger, oh and it was ordered by an Englishman , I have a beautiful H&H 20 that was ordered by an American which has double triggers, so.....

Back in the early 80-s in the bar districk when I was out for a TIME.....I found three young college gals. I stayed out front of things, It did not take me long to choose my target. The choices were all good. A 5-5 dark haired country girl cut as a button with a big smile and little dimpled cheeks. A skinny red head with fire in here eyes and a rack that was hard to miss! And finally the one I liked....she was fine, curvy little blonde. I could tell she was smart and kept her head above the crowd. As I watched and planed I saw her blow off several young dudes like a james bond girl would! Here is my chance...her two friends were off mingling so I sat down next to her....she had this lovely English accent, stunning blue eyes, long legs and a low cut short red dress, not cheep in anyway. Time stopped for a moment as we talked. Her friends returned we all chatted and had a few. It was a good time. I left with that cute little country girl...(-: A fella has to know his limitations!!! But I always wonder about that curvy little blond from England. SXS Ohio

Do you have any contact information on the other two girls? What about pictures?

You will eventually require dimensions as well don't you think Bill ?

[QUOTE=todd allen;255345]I will post the text of the letter in the Off Topic forum after Christmas. My grandfather (10?) and his family went through hardship as a result of the two trials in which he testified against Martha Carrier (who was hung) and Hopestill Tylers wife who was acquitted. The family letter describes him as being "dragged" before the court. But family history indicates another reason for his testimony. I do believe that he did think Martha Carrier was a true witch based on her interactions with him, which were not pleasant. I'll provide more information in the Off Topic forum.

My ex, probably on her mother's side, is a direct descendent of Sarah Hale. I have no serious information about this relationship. The family were sometime residents of Lexington, Salem, and later, Rockport. All gone now, including my ex. I don't need dimensions on those three girls. After forty years, I think I can imagine them.

A little "Bubble bubble toil and trouble" eh Bill?





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I wonder how many of the “best” gun manufacturers in England have a few hi tech CNC milling machines hidden in a back room in their shops. I would be willing to bet, ALL.

When I toured the Holland and Holland factory about 10 years ago, they said that they had most of their frame designs on CNC machining, however they had several other designs, which they chose not to put on CNC machining, because they did not want to lose the capability of doing unique frames by hand.

I could watch that all day. Unfortunately, there's snow to be moved.

I was given a 4 hour tour of the H&H factory by the plant manager about 10 years ago. He said that most of their different frames (shotgun, (SxS and O/U) rifle (Double and bolt) were done by CNC machining, but that they kept several frames to be done by hand, - not that they couldn't program them for CNC, but they didn't want to lose the talent of doing it by hand,so presumably there will be a young apprentice who will learn to do it the old way one of these days. Parts of the plant still looked like the 1800's

Nice,video, See how the barrels are wired together & bent with wedges to regulate ? Thats why it’s so difficult to open chokes after a good double is regulated & the ribs are laid. Nothings straight to guide the reamer when opening, the reason you see out of round muzzles. If all open jobs were patterned to check regulation you would see many with different point of impact.

It’s not impossible to open chokes. but simply running a reamer in the bore piloted close to the choke taper is a good way to ruin a nice SXS . Factory single barrel gun it’s not a difficult job. All alike and straight.

William

If you add up all of the guns made by those producing “best” guns between 1900 and 1940 I would imagine the total would be a small fraction of the guns produced by Parker over the same period. The majority of Best guns were bespoke, not production guns. They were made with considerable attention to detail, inside and out.

The "Best" guns were hand built for aristocrats,and are works of gunmaking art.The Parkers were built for American sportsmen of all economic classes,and from the Trojan to the Invincible they are a testament to what makes America great.

Mr. Vicknair did another comparison of English Best with Parker https://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot...pparently.html. The comparison is hand-made vs. machine made.

Ken

If you can finish reading it without stopping to breath, or take an Ativan, you’ll probably accept what he’s saying, albeit with a hint of a chip on his shoulder.
All of his pomposity aside, we can love our ‘home made’ guns as much as we want, and deservedly so.
I worked part time, for 16 years, in a steel research foundry in England. In total, I guess I was there about 4 months each year. I learned, very early on, to love proper ale, and spent more than my share of time in the local. A very friendly bartender/ sheep farmer told me once “ Once you get beyond our ‘not invented here’ attitude, we’re not a bad bunch of blokes”

Mr. Vicknair’s piece does seem plausible and well-argued. He even dispenses with the recurring foul language.

I know my station; and it looks like it’s with the “machine-made” gun.

There were actually a number of English makers producing best quality guns between 1890 and WWl, and for those who want that quality without paying the premium associated with names like Purdey, Boss, Holland, etc. there are guns available at reasonable prices, it just takes research, patience, and a little luck.

https://i.imgur.com/aonYSqL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Q1TjMkp.jpg

Seems theres no certain answer on what a best quality even is .
Ive seen them say well its a best quality name but not a best quality gun because it has to be a best quality grade :rolleyes: .

Ive always just went by the common line of thought of if its a London made double then its a Best .

“Best” is then just a term describing a manufacturing process, and a stubborn one at that. Holding on to these old traditions in manufacturing is fine but modern stockholders sure wouldn’t appreciate it very much.
Like Dewey says, mass production was of utmost importance to American manufacturers and I agree with him that the Parker Gun is at the top of that heap.

As for me, I’ll take ‘second best’ any day. Never had a desire to own a “best” gun even if I could afford it. I guess this is because I’m an American and take great pride in all of my ‘second best’ Parkers.

There are automobiles that have been made entirely by hand, but damn few of them... and the question begged is “Why?” Pride in the fact that they could do it I guess. But who can afford to own one... Jay Leno? I live in the same town Jay was raised in and I can assure you it’s not “in the water.” Even Jay wouldn’t enjoy driving it - he’d be too afraid of damaging it to really enjoy using it. I’d be afraid of the same thing if I owned “best” guns.




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The term may have come from describing their products something like Good, Better, Best. They could have as easily said 1, 2, 3, or V,P,G, etc.
London makers presented themselves as though the makers in other large cities had lesser skilled workers. Birmingham had a wealth of skilled labor, and a William Ford sidelock, ordered by someone who asked for William Ford's best work, got a gun every bit as nice as a Royal Grade. Polished, gilded and pierced bridles were not limited to any specific geographic area.
I remember many nice English side by sides of my dad's, and my mother's cousins, in Scotland had a half dozen in a rack on the bootroom wall. They were all beautiful, because they were, except for barrel length, and maybe bore, the same. It almost appeared as every gun was engraved by the same hand. Except for guys like Ken Hunt, most of the engravers seems to stick to fine scroll work.
Apart from Parker being made in my Dad's hometown, the endless variety, and relative affordability are only a few of the reasons I love them so much.

I can see Dean's point. But... even a "Best" Parker, such as a AHE, is imbued with a dimension of human craft and art that a Trojan is virtually devoid of. Both can take game. But, there is something about the human hand and eye that translates into clear intrinsic value, one over the other.

A Purdey, Boss or Holland & Holland has it. Because they are crafted by skilled artisans... not machines. The same is true of a Rolls Royce or Morgan.

That does not mean that fine guns or fine cars are not meant to be used. The General Manager of Purdey's once told me that every gun they make is intended for use. And it was rather pointless not to use them.

What's more, I once knew a car collector in LA who had a fantastic garage full of wonderful collector cars. And he tasked one of his curators to take each car out every so often and drive the bejesus out of it, because that was what they were for. I wish I were that guy.

Still, I shoot my Purdey, Holland & Holland or Grant on a regular basis. Because that's what they're for.

Jay,

A very nice Hussey! Is she yours?

Ken

Yes, it’s mine.