I agree Bill. Direct and circumstantial evidence points to guns maybe stamped with skeet chokes at the 1935 mark if not maybe some even in 1934. They may have had some in stock prior to 1935 as spec guns. Pete's marketing brochure is reportedly from 1935, so that would make sense as part of ramp up unless skeet guns were always a costumed ordered affair.

I gave the details of the PGCA letter and my gun in an earlier post. It is stamped Skeet In and Skeet Out, it has no evidence of ever being refinished. I bought it from the grandson of the original owner who said his grandfather used it to hunt grouse until age 94. It has quite a bit of carry wear and very little mechanical wear which seems to go with what I was told.

Here is the back of that Remington Skeet Gun advertisement. There is a 6 35 in pencil in the upper right and the lower right it has 1935, American Medicinal Spirits Corp. There is also a 1935 in the address on the Remington Ad side.

My 16 gauge was made in 36 I believe, and is marked skeet in/out

We will never flush out all of the spuriously marked skeet guns, but we can start by identifying high condition guns with fresh colors, 28" barrels, checkered stock cheeks, and other signs of work by the shop that built the fakes. No big deal. They're still nice guns if you don't pay too much.

Unfortunately the factory records are not available to the collecting public on the vast majority of those “fakes”. Consequently, unless a potential buyer knows exactly what to look for, a lot of folks could be burned.





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A Del Grego skeet conversion is a great gun and a good buy if you don't pay too much.

I agree Bill and I emphasize your caveat.





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My VH was made into a skeet gun, probably in the ‘40’s. It has a replacement stock with modern dimensions and a beaver tail. I hate the look of the beaver tail forend but after shooting the gun, it is oh so sweet. It has 30 in barrels chokes Cyl/IC. It crushes them on skeet. I may make it my main skeet gun.

Todd, in an earlier post you mentioned that there is a theory that "Skeet"rules led to the demise of the 16ga. I believe that the 3" 20ga was probably more responsible. When that happened, you could get a lighter gun with the same payload by going to the 20ga.
The Skeet rules allow using a smaller gauge in larger guage competition, i.e., 16 or 20 gauge in 12 (ALL) gauge competition. During my active years in Skeet, many shooters used the 20ga. in 12ga. competition.

I have a wonderful cut 26" DHE, single trigger, beavertail, 207,000 series 12 gauge. The bores were enlarged to about .745 so some choke could be put back. Herschel advertised the gun as an original skeet gun. My friend was the station chief for we can guess who in Kabul at the time. He received the gun by diplomatic mail and immediately contacted HC to bring to his attention that it was nobody's skeet gun. I bought the gun years later along with a ream of letters back and forth, HC refusing to take the gun back. I also have the original ad and correspondence. He did offer to let my friend pick another gun, from Kabul. I promised myself I wouldn't tell this story until Herschel was dead. He's dead and I'm telling the story.

There are probably lots of contributing factors as it is probably not just one thing, never is. The theory suggests when skeet classifications were being created they did a sort of drop 8 mentality. 12, 20, 28 and then 410(special class). As I understand it the 12 gauge is the anything goes highest limit gauge hierarchy open class, meaning no gauge bigger. Heck you can shoot any gauge lower in it if your that good, they may even let you shoot a .22 short gallery gun. I think at first people did shoot 16 gauge in the 12 category but hey perception was less shot in the pattern was a disadvantage so why do it if your seeking a competitive edge in competition. There just was no classification for 16 gauge and it got regulated to hunting gun category. You could not shoot a 16 gauge in the 20 gauge classification, so there is a void. Everyone completey forgets little Annie Oakley shooting 4,700 targets out of 5,000 with a pair of 16 gauge double barrels.


I think what you mentioned is that 20 gauge shooters thinking more shot in the pattern would be an advantage as it would like shooting a 16 gauge in the 20 gauge class with 3 inch shells. I don't think it works that way due to shot stringing, recoil management etc. etc. but that was perception. Essentially everyone just started being weened off the 16 gauge. I also think with game numbers down no real reason at all to shoot 10 gauges since it pretty much got left out of skeet all together hurt that type gun interest as well.

Hate to say it but I almost think sporting clays is probably a big contributing factor for the slide in sxs interest and I like sporting clays. Even have a Ruger 12 gauge sporting clays gun that I really like. I think sporting clays and so called push to O/U's with screw in chokes started the weening process in the late 80's and early 90's. It wasn't planned thing it just evolved.

Two points to add, or possibly contrast with, Todd's post. The NSSA World All-Bore (12 gauge) championship has been won with 16 and 20 gauge guns. You don't need a 12 gauge load to compete at the highest levels of skeet. The same event has been won with side by side guns when over unders and automatic shotguns were also competing. A significant number of NSSA competitors hold a higher average in 20 and 28 gauge competition than they hold in the 12 gauge event.