i have had gobblers to run away from a call ...only way for me to get at ashot at them was to ambush them....on gobblers relunkunt to come in that last few yards to be with in shooting range i learned to switch calls and only use really low calling.... i carry 6 calls with me sometimes switching calls is the majic thing to do just do not hit a sour note....charlie

been thinking about this number 9 shot all day cannot get it out of my mind gona have to try this soon...in a 10 ga magnum or the 8 ga this should be some kind of makic on a turkey....charlie

Charlie,

I fired on a reluctant gobbler Saturday morning after two hours of steady conversation. The penetration of the 9s was amazing; trouble was it was into a metal cattle gate at forty yards away! The bird flew away and I wasted a second shot without effect about seventy yards away.

I forgot two things. I kept saying aim to the left since the 12 VH shoots to the right at long distance; that was until I shot and I aimed straight at his head. The second thing is I could see the turkey, but did not account for the gate being in the way. I'm jinxed this year. Two misses so far. :crying:

sorry about missing that turkey...never tried shooting thru a metal gate before...ha you may have to get yourself a rabbit foot....this should help....it seems some sesons it is just hard to get that bird....anyway its fun chasing those birds.....charlie

found some tungstun shot shells last night they were priced atthirty something dollars a box...i did not know if these were the same shells that you you have jerry...the only info they give on them were that they were better than still shot...so i have not bought any yet...can you give me some place to order the shot or the ready made shells....been raining hard here this morning and evening....charlie

Not the same thing Charlie, I don't believe anybody is selling shells loaded with the Super Shot as of yet.

Federal is selling Turkey loads with TSS shot ,but I have not been able to locate any in 12ga in any local stores. One store has 20ga & 410 ! and only in #7.

I think this is correct. Jerry and Mike are hand loading some tungsten with the help of fella that seems to have a reload formula down. The only big company marketing the TSS is Federal that I know of. They have actually had some secret testers using it for years in the field. Have seen some you tube videos of patterns of TSS 8 and 9 shot out to some 70 yard shots. Density rating of tungsten is 18, lead 12 and I think steel shot is 8.

Charlie,

What you found is the new Hevi-shot they call Hevi-X I believe. It is a tungsten alloy, and not pure tungsten like TSS. Below is where you order the shot, from a guy named Hal. He will provide the load data. The only problem is other than powder and primers, the wads he uses are really not common so that will be an added expense. I wish he had used regular stuff we all use but the wads are available from Ballistic Products. So I has to order 250 12 gauge and 250 20 gauge wads to load a dozen shells.

https://www.tungstensupershots.com/

I am really just learning about tungsten as shot alternative (Thanks Jerry), even though for many years knew military used tungsten in certain rounds, but that is for a single projectile. Anyway I am not wanting to sound like some expert since clearly not but my understanding based on work of others is that the Hevi-X was designed to be for waterfowl use and is suppose to replace steel but only be comparable to lead shot at about a density of 12.

The name of the game is density, but guessing the performance Jerry is seeking with the smaller shot he is using suggests a density of about 18. I think Hevi-shot now a trademark did try and make a turkey load with some tungsten that was suppose to have a density of 13. Here is link to shotgun world discussion. Personally I don't like to attach links to much to other forums or discussions, but this discussion may prove helpful, assuming information they provided is correct.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=459367

Btw; Jerry thank you for your work on this tungsten notion. Now I'm having a shot inferiority complex, just like cooleritus virus that I got when Yeti came out. I am now calling it tungstenitus and both can result to the dreaded procedure of a required cashectomy. :) Like some surgeries alot of them are unnecessary.

Hi Charlie. The go-to guy is Hal for TSS and load data. You can find him under the username of Hawglips on duckhuntingchat.com, gobblernation.com or shotgunworld.com

Gobblernation.com has a lot of info on that forum about TSS.

I've been running TSS from Hal for a few years as a specialty load. This stuff flat outperforms anything on the market at range. #6 will shoot clean through a swan at 50 yards. Pictured is my 2015 swan taken at 50+ yards. I misjudged the range and hit it mid body. Feet were pointing up at the sun before it got half way to the water. Second picture is my 2017 swan. That one was much closer, maybe 20-25 yards. Doubt it heard the shot. Both were taken with 2-3/4" 12 gauge loads containing 570 gr. of TSS-6. Very effective load and it will roll geese easily at 60+ yards.

There's no picking shot out of the meat with a TSS load!

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;240896]Vermont limits shot size while hunting turkeys to #8 being the smallest and #2 being the largest - though I don't know who would ever use #2 for such a tiny target.

Dean, I don't know if Vermont has a fall season but NY does. I have taken many fall birds with #4 shooting for the body, not the head. #2's don't pattern well with any of my tightly choked 12 bores, so I went to #4 which pattern well. I've never owned a gun that patterened well with #2's. I used to use #3's on geese back in the day which I bought from Herters. In my guns, the 3's patterend well and far better than the 2's. I am a big fan of #3's. I wish it were still available.

I'd like to hear how you guys using this spendy tungsten shot are going to get the turkeys to pose in front of a setup that will allow recovering the shot!

Richard you just need a metal detector and some tweezers..

Richard,

TSS is magnetic so you just walk around as you are hunting the same site in the future and drag a "cow magnet" on a rope behind you.:)

i ve read every thing i could find on the sst tungston shot it seems to be the best patterning at long range shot there is on the market...i could not find any loaded shells for sale all sold out... i tried getting hold of the guy hal who is selling the shot but have not been able to reach him any suggestions....charlie

Charlie,

E-mail Hal Abbott at: hganc@aol.com

Let me know if he does not reply to you.

jerry he did not reply i ve tried to other sites he is on but cannot get thru....charlie

Charlie, he's in business. I used the email address you posted and he replied. What do you think that stuff would be like in 5s and 6s (if they make them that size) for waterfowl over decoys?

king i bet a 5 or6 shot would be like shooting lead bbs at them passing ducks it would be like shooting 22 s thru them....i just tried the fac againand it says failed....it may be my old computer.....from some where i just got a email stateing that rogers sporting good store has the 20 ga in stock at the moment...i tried to get on their site but failed at this too...and ive never been on rogers site before....its a rainey day here....charlie

Hal told me 7s for Canada Geese. Also for turkeys if you want a larger size. I guess a body shot with 7s would be like the old timers shooting 2s at the body.

Hal Abbott address is hganc@aol.com, charlie. I just ordered three pounds of 5s to try them out. He ships to Canada.

If, tungsten weighs twice as much as lead do you have to use half as much?

Yes. Half as much volume but not weight. The 1 1/4 ounce number 9s that I killed turkeys with in 12 gauge is a very small amount of shot. That's why in the 20 gauge with one ounce there is the top of a 28 gauge wad inside the 20 gauge wad and also a filler wad.

Because the shot is so much smaller, it is not affected by the drag of the wind and retains so much more energy down range. Being small, it meets less resistance once it enters the game, thus having shot that will penetrate all the way through the animal.

Jerry I have a question for you and maybe you accounted for and mentioned it and I missed it somewhere.

Since you have rigged up your own loads do you think the diameter of the shot in shell with your double wad of say 20 & 28 gauge reduces the load diameter so its about the same or smaller than the choke constriction. I am guessing the double wad maybe does this plus also gives enough cushion because that tungsten is not going to give very much when pressed thru a forcing cones and a barrel choke.

First, I didn't rig up my own load. These were developed and tested for/by Hal, who also provided the pressure. All of the loads he has provided to me are low pressure.

As far as constriction, this is no different than shooting steel in a very thick wad. It still gets compressed and since not a single shot gets deformed, the patterns are great. Look at the picture I provided of the one ounce 20 gauge through a standard full choke at 40 yards. That pattern would kill every time at 40, and probably 50 yards. There were 24 hits in just the head and neck areas.

Jerry, much of what's been passed here is in subjective terms (less wind drag, more energy, less resistance, complete penetration through the animal?).

It would be good to see the inventor's tech data that compares velocity and energy bleedoff rates for tungsten vs. lead with the same diameter pellets at 10 yards or so increments, something like 20-30-40-50-60 yards. Also to see the measured penetration at those yardages in an accepted medium like pine wood or similar. Data for lead pellets is available from references. Downrange pattern density is one parameter, but measured terminal velocity, energy and penetration are other important ones for the inventor's different pellet sizes and especially so when recommending something like TSS 9's for turkeys at longish ranges.

"The Tungsten 9s have the same penetration at 70 yards as lead 9s do at 15 yards" ….. I'd particularly like to see the tech data on that.

frank

I appreciate that clarification and understood you were following a formula. Also understood your pattern boards that you shared which backs up everything I have seen and read about tungsten and performance qualities.

Did not realize it was also a lower pressure load. Thanks for followup.

Frank,

I posted it earlier in the thread.

http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/...sities.267784/

Thank you Jerry, I'll have to look at this in detail once I get more time after the Northeast SxS. I'm not familiar with that gel as a penetration test medium for shotgun pellets. Personally I like 3/8" thick pine wood boards as used by Capt Askins who wanted to see complete 3/8” penetration to help cipher the max reliable kill distance for that size pellet (along with number of hits at that distance). IME, it’s always good to objectively test newly-developed pellet materials against "tried and true” lead loads of the past.

frank

This might have been addressed and I just missed it. Is their any known concerns with shooting tungsten through a damascus bbl with full chokes?

Being harder than steel and denser than lead, I would think so.






.

Yea, I don't think they recommend shooting steel shot even thru full choke fluid steel barrels. There could be work arounds though but think your pushing your luck with damascus on anything harder than lead

I think there are some English loads called Black Gold that use a Tungsten powder that are molded into pellets, supposedly acts like lead, but think its a non toxic shot as opposed to high energy down range shot.

i finally got hold of halwill be ordering shot soon...hal says he will provide reloading info...i should say my wife got the email to go thru....will be testing the shot soon got to make me a shot catcher like j a made....charlie

I have been following the praises of this shot and it is remarkable. However, and keep this in mind I have not hunted turkey for more than a few years. I thought the point was to call them in. How many turkeys have been killed with lead shot and old guns? Yes at more than 40 yards with tight chokes a scope is in order, maybe an account for the drop in elevation beyond much more distance?
I guess man will always push the limits.

The point of my thread was that it would be no longer necessary to carry and hold up that 10 gauge Parker or even an 8 gauge for turkeys. There is nothing worse than crippling a magnificent turkey. Yes, the idea is to get them in less than 40 yards. But sometimes they don't and sometimes we screw up and shoot at over 40; and lose a turkey to the vermin of the woods.

Small bore to me means and is usually accepted to be 16 gauge and smaller. With the TSS, I feel confident that a tightly choked 20 gauge with just one ounce will kill every time out to 40 yards.

On the last turkey I killed on a wet morning before daylight with the trees full of leaves I got within thirty yards of a roosted bird. For nearly an hour I held up a 12 gauge 1910 Fox A grade choked modified and full; I could not have held up a heavy 10. I had my finger over the front trigger thinking he is flying down right in front of me. He flew away and hit the ground at over fifty yards and my brain did not react and I pulled the trigger when he hit the ground. Lead, no bird and a big mistake. With TSS, my light load of 1 1/4 ounces of 9s killed him as dead as a stone. Wrong barrel, wrong choke, too far, but it is a forgiving shot. Next year, I will move down to a 16 or a 20 since I know what it will do. For a stubborn bird, I will take the modern 10 and throw 2 1/4 ounces at him if I get the chance!

My eastern turkeys never react as the ones I watch on TV, coming in in a flock to attack a decoy, and then standing around so a second one gets shot by the cameraman. You'll see my videos are usually in open oak woods and it is one bird at a time. My birds are not TV actors. I'm always baffled by the advertisement for tight choke tubes and special shells, and every video shows a turkey killed at ten yard blowing its head off, where any gun even the lowly .410 would have killed it. When I get them to thirty yards, I let the pattern do the work; I don't wait for the five yard shot.

anybody loading the tungston shot and pattering it..i have not bought any yet but plan to soon...i loaded up some 10 ga hulls the other day they are brass some of the old hulls had to be over a hundred years old...always wanted to load these old brass hulls and now i know how and done it....been interested in 10 ga round balls here lately one thing for sure not much info on loading round ball 10 ga loads.... i have shot 12 ga slugs in a 10 ga by useing a gauge mate...the accuracy is pretty good out of one barrel but not to good in the other barrel....charlie

Charlie,

Look at my very first post on this thread. There are photos of the patterns. The reason I loaded 12s to start with was to shoot the 1 1/4 ounce in my 10s with GaugeMates, or 12s if I wanted to. I never got around to shooting the shells in my 10 but shot them in three different 12s with killing patterns at 40 yards, and even one ounce in the 20.

jerry i looked at the pattern those are really something...i like the idea of useing gauge mates in the 10 ga with this new shot..but i m just gona have to try it in my 8 ga you know how it is....got to try a paper target at 75 yards...i know big shot like 2 s and bb s will kill at extreme ranges my farthest shot with the 8 ga has been 67 steps with a clean kill useing lead bb s 2 3/4 ounce of shot... if i had a modern 8 ga i believe i could go to 3 ounces and be ok i have shot 3 ounces in the mag 10 and in the 8 ga the 10 did not pattern well but the 8 ga shooting lead bbs put several holes in a 5 gallon plastic bucket at 85 steps and the shot went thru both sides with ease...and this was a thick plastic bucket.... i too may have to shoot the smaller gauges soon....charlie