Thanks very much Victor. Most of us had never seen that and probably a great many never knew about the suit.





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Many thanks for posting this Victor - those of us who lived through it sport many dental appliances as a result!

This has me curious now, what guns were they actually planning on marketing?

I think lost in the shuffle this comment makes the most sense. Question is if PGCA would be considered a commercial enterprise, probably not in its current form. Dean pointed out there is an agreement or charter allowing PGCA to use, reference or make part of PGCA endeavors certain materials Remington owns for educational purposes. Guessing the use of trademark emblems is allowed or they would have come down on it years ago. That emblem is reproduced every time a letter goes out and everyday on this page. Those letters and this site and its actions promotes the brand and creates value for it and this group does not seek to profit from it, steal from it, or make the brand its own, it merely continually promotes it at no cost or effort from Remington.

Okay here is a question. How much is the Parker brand or trademark worth? I've worked on trying to value things similar and unless you have an operational strategy, its very subjective. All I do know is that users create value and PGCA is a core group of users.

To the best of my knowledge, the PGCA is not concerned with the 'value' of such trademarks beyond the identification they lend to our organization.

We are concerned with 'value' only to the degree that certain monies we receive from membership fees, the sale of research letters, raffle gun income and silent auction income allow us to perpetuate our mission of education of things pertaining to the Parker Gun, other Charles Parker enterprises, and related historical facts.






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They had actually produced a handful of prototype O/U competition style guns.

I handled one but was somewhat unimpressed. They planned three or four grades, some highly embellished and some considerably plainer.





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I agree, have not seen any mission statement or "Why" statement contrary to your point listed, but nonetheless, PGCA as an entity intended or not creates value to Parker Brand, since in essence as individuals we are users of the product.

I said this before,if it probably wasn't the combined efforts of people that participate with this organization, there would probably be about 100,000 antique Parker shotgun lamps. I would almost dare say its groups of enthusiasts like PGCA that keep significant interest and relevance in still using and maintaining hammer guns with damascus or twist barrel guns. Before coming onto this site I would never have even thought about owning one of those guns, now I am starting to get the bug to try one. :):bowdown:

This is the first I've heard of this.. I was thinking something similar would end up happening now, with Remington being bankrupt.. Just slap the Parker name on some cheap foreign made SXS. I seem to remember Marlin doing this a few years back with LC Smith.

If anyone is interested in reading more about Remington’s PARKER trademark or about the PARKER BROS. trademark that Remington challenged/quashed, I posted some documents on DropBox:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lbjmpukes...a3vYSHtCa?dl=0

Does not tell the whole story, but there are some interesting tidbits.

-Victor

No doubt the Parker name could be purchased as part of the Bankruptcy proceedings. Fast work and good Lawyer may be inexpensive. Can’t see the current gun industry being interested .

William

Ya know that did cross my mind, and right now you would have the best negotiating power you ever had, but again how to value a brand that produces no product. Its almost like buying the Tucker car brand at this point.

Be clear I am not a attorney. My Bankruptcy experience is limited to collecting from defunct customers and how it works depends on a lot.

Generally the court appoints a trustee who is representing the creditors as a group trying to obtain the maximum. He’s just guy trying for the highest price and most times paid a percentage. He does have some deadlines and often late in the process assets go for pennies on the dollar. Other times the opposite. Anybody serious gets in touch and asks how he’s going to liquidate. Trustee will give you the details, that’s his job.

William

I stand corrected, and educated. Thank you for that Victor. It's particularly disappointing that Remington (RA) was able to get issued a new trademark in 2004.
I read enough of your attachment to further inflame my teeth :crying: but beyond that, Just plain quit.

Kevin McCormack and I had an interesting afternoon at Millbrook a few years ago, inspecting and test firing the new Parker Brothers, Makers over under. I was unable to shoot it, because I was recovering from or preparing for surgery, but Kevin had a good time shooting it. In the intervening years, I lost track of the project, except for going on the website occasionally. I never saw the guns again, never heard from the representatives, although I had agreed to take the gun on the road as a competitor and promoter, if that proposal appealed to them. I'm sure the gun had its positive features, but it was way too busy around the breech with pins, screws to loosen, and crevices to collect dirt and powder residue. I wonder if there are still a couple of them around for research and display?

I think you are correct in the process and had a recent client go through it and it went down as you described. I'm no attorney either.

Btw did do some research and seems Remington has $1 billion in debt and has delayed filing until Tuesday-ish of this week. They seek to eliminate $700 mil in debt, restructure and then reportedly sale after restructure if they get their way. They gambled miserably on black guns and a certain candidate winning to prompt panic buying. Believe that is liken to mortgaging your house and taking that debt to buy bitcoins.

BTW for any snowflakes watching this board, my sincere apology and condolences in advance to you if you find my analogy insulting or it hits to close to home.

The subject of that suit SHOULD have been that the Parker name was soiled by putting it on an O/U.

For the benefit of those that have never seen one of these ill-fated Parker Bros. O&U's, here's an advertisement from 2005:

Don't be surprised if Remington is forced to liquidate, something like that could occur again. Parker's SBT looks almost like an O/U with no U. Parker attached to the SXS is same as peanut butter and jelly sandwich, they just go together. Dare say if the some of the craftsmen inherit to the brand would have last until era O/U started, bet they would have made a damn fine one. C'est la vie.

Crazy what happened to the label?

I hear ya Edger. However, if Remington was not policing its ownership of the PARKER mark, just imagine what could have happened if it was a free-for-all. We had the Skeuse Repro in the 1980s. That was great! (Own them and love them.) But it prompted Remington to wake the f**k up. After the Skeuse Repro died off, there were folks ready to take over what they believed was an abandoned PARKER trademark and start selling PARKER over/unders. (The images Wild Skies posted look nice, but an O/U?) This time, Remington said “no.” Once a trademark is deemed abandoned, the market is open, so be careful what you wished for. It will most likely not be a Skeuse-quality reproduction the next time.

-Victor