I would have a Ithaca 280 or 100. They are not so ugly. IMHO.

One of my early SXS's was an Ithaca SKB M150 20ga. It had 25 inch bbls choked IC/M as I recall. I sold it to a friend over 25 years ago and he still uses it.

Ed, winchester did make a model 74, a semi-auto .22. Made from about 1938 to 1954. Kind of a homely sucker, like the 24, but shoots good and was all steel and walnut, just like a Parker. I bought my first one last week as I am getting back into Winchester .22s. Was collecting Winchesters long before I got into Parkers. I did have a 21 in my earlier days-a 30s Tournement in 12 gauge. Too heavy like so many here have mentioned. Sold it quite a few years ago.

if i wanted a gun for being tough and indstructible almost it would be a sterling fox secound would be a 1940 smodel stevens or the 1950 s model....would not mind owning a model 21 winchester but for the most were always to high for my pocket book....charlie

I have a hard time with the prices they bring myself. I want one because it is a classic American shotgun and I could always use another heavy duty duck gun

I kind of detect the odor of a group of posters who not only have not owned a Model 21, but have not had one to touch. The 21 is not a Parker, and a Parker is not a 21, but they are both wonderful guns. Like a few of those who have posted, I have touched a 21, and have owned them for exactly fifty years now. I am a Parker guy, but have owned a couple of dozen Model 21s also. One 16 skeet had a messy trigger that was probably made worse by Lefever Arms and Jaegers. I have had one 21 with a loose forend lug. That is the extent of my problems. The "heavy load" myth is another big lie. The 3" 12 gauge Parker was made on the light #1 1/2 frame, so frame integrity is not a factor. Give us a break. The 21 is not an unattractive gun when equipped with nice wood. The "heavy" or "too heavy" myth is another lie perpetrated by the uninformed gun press. Most 3" Model 21s, mine are examples, weigh much less than eight pounds, most around 7 pounds 10 ounces with 30" barrels. A 20 or 16 Model 21 can be set up at 6 pounds, or a little more, similar to a Parker. The factory 3" 20 gauge Parker is much heavier than a factory 3" 20 gauge Model 21.

Bill, I still think the Model 21 16 ga has the best balance of all the gauges, it is just a nice pointing gun.

I own and hunt with both Parkers and 21's ,they are both great guns, try a 20ga 21 with double triggers and a splinter forend and you might change your mind on how a 21 feels.

My 20 gauge 28" double trigger 21 weighs six pounds, four ounces, the same as most of my 0 frame 20 and 16 gauge Parkers. It is now owned by a friend in my gun club.

I don't get the Model 21 bashing either.

I love my three digit serial # Model 21 twelve gauge with double triggers and splinter forend.

It has the original factory chokes marked mod, full and nice dense patterns 70% in the right barrel and 83% in the left.

She weighs 7.5# and I shoot it well.

I truly enjoy my 16 gauge parker VH. It has its place as a great carry field gun that makes the miles of walking for pheasants pleasant. I also own a Model 21 trap gun bored full and full that is a very handsome gun, that is at home on the sporting clay course as well as Hunting when you don't have to carry it all day. They both have a time and place to be carried and used.

I have other SXS's that I also enjoy depending on the day and sport that I would rather shoot and not worry about screwing up a $5K-12K gun. Just another tool in the tool box.

Just My opinion...

Byron...

model 21
 

how can I avoid seeing any more model 21s on this site?
or a dh parker come on!:rotf:

I'm just saying...
 

28" ,double trigger 20 gauge, 6 pounds even.
P&M21GCA

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k.../winies052.jpg

I have wanted a gun like this since it was featured in the DGJ

You would think that a two barrel set would be the epitome of versatility. My experience with them is that only one set of barrels is used 95% of the time. the Hollywood gun is a skeet/trap set and the trap barrels have never been on the gun in the 9 years I've had it. I have an AAHE up grade 28 with a second set of 28ga barrels from James Purdy that have been on the gun only a couple of times.

Rich is right about two barrel sets. The only thing the extra set is good for is enabling you to say you have a two barrel set

I have a M21 20 gauge skeet grade 2 bbl set 26" were used for grouse until I decided not to carry a $12K stumpknocker. The 30" bbls are great for preserve birds with my Lab

2 Barrel Set
 

Gee thanks guys. I am considering the purchase of a 2 barrel set.:eek: Bob

Bob buy two guns you'll get more use out of them.

Dig D I fell last year Grouse hunting with a CHE 20, one of only 8 with 26 inch Damascus bbls. I was bruised and banged up a little but thankfully the gun was unscathed.

A friend has a beautiful graded 20 g M21, two barrel set (28" & 30", I believe). English stock, traditional btfe. It's the ONLY M21 I have handled that didn't feel like a 2x4, it was more like a broomstick. Beautiful gun, but just didn't have the "soul" an old Parker has. M21's are about the only shotgun I don't have an affliction for.

Mills, I couldn't disagree with you more about original two barrel sets. First they offer the owner an immediately available, fitted replacement set of barrels that are "correct" to that gun, should the first set become damaged or destroyed. How many otherwise nice Parker guns have you seen that have been relegated to wall hanger status or cannibalized for parts due to barrel damage, excessive pitting, etc? :crying: Each year there are fewer original configuration shootable Parker Brother guns existent, but each year there seems to be an increase in the number of available orphan receivers for sale. I wish that all Parker guns had originally been built with at least two sets of barrels. If we accept Rich's premise that 95% of the time the second set of barrels wouldn't have seen use, then a lot of these guns would still be in service.

Rich, I always like the idea of buying two guns better than just one. Imagine you could back to 1932 and order a new Parker VH gun. Lets say it is an 0 frame VH 28 with 28 inc barrels. Fast forward to today and if all goes well the gun is worth the appreciated value of one VH 28. If, however, you were to were to fall, let's say last year while grouse hunting and the barrels on the VH 28 were damaged beyond repair, you are left with essentially the value of some 0 frame VH 20 grade assorted extra parts, basically a win or loss situation. On the other hand, suppose you had ordered a second original barrel in the same configuration. Fast forward to today. If all went well you would have the value of a complete VH 28 plus you could sell that second 28 ga. barrel for enough to buy another nice VH 20 or two. If you still suffered that fall, you would still have the extra barrel that would allow you to retain the full value of a complete VH 28 plus an extra monoblock, a win win or win situation. My vote will always be for more original Parker guns with more original Parker barrels and more PGCA members.:bigbye:

Or another answer for the question about two barrel sets are they worthwhile or not is my AHE two barrel set one set of barrels is 20 ga and the other is 28 ga. Now that kind of combination really makes sense.:)

If it makes so much sense how come you never shoot it:rotf:
I have taken a bad fall in the Grouse woods only once thankfully and it was with a very nice CHE 20. The premise that one set of barrels might become damaged doesn't justify the need for a second set. If you damaged one so badly that you needed to use the second set you could just go to the second gun instead.

I tend to agree that a 2 barrel set is not that great. It's really like owning 1-1/2 guns. Every time I look at the second set of barrels I think "Man, if only I had a receiver and stock I'd have two guns!"

As for the 'damaged barrels' concept, it's not a bad thought but are we really seeing Parkers with damaged barrels that much anyore? I'd rather have a spare buttstock.

I never stop learning from you guys. But, I almost had to laugh, you started out comparing a model 21 to a Parker and all of a sudden it took a sharp turn and we are on to a discussion about 2 barrel Parkers, also very informative and interesting. I had to cringe at the thought of falling with a C grade 20 gauge and somewhere along the line we forgot all about the model 21's. If you love Parkers, you just love Parkers, no use wasting time on anything else. I have a VHE 16 on an 0 frame that I love which makes me look like a great shot, but it is the gun! It may not be an AHE but I wouldn't trade it for any model 21. Thanks for all the great info. , you guys are great.

No surprise here....Parker men prefer Parkers! I am a upland hunter. I like light guns that swing natural and are a tad wispy. Weight coupled with balance must be just right. Not all parkers have this quality but a fair number in all gauges do. This is the quality that the English best gun is known for. I have a couple Parkers that have this quality......GHE-20 28" at 5lbs-15oz and a VH-16 that really has it! The 16 gun sports 26" tubes and comes in at 6lbs-1oz. My mind thinks 28" barrels are best but this gun proves different! I can't miss in the heavy thickets with it. Did I mention that it is a original two barrel set and the 2 marked set is 32" long mod and full!, and yes they get used when hunting roosters, man do they swing nice! Lets talk about the model 21....I would think they make for great duck and target guns. Strong and over built...all the weight is at the center of the gun and here lies the trouble. This makes for a poky gun that does not track and stay with the target. A feller can learn to shoot any gun if he shoots it long enough but will seldom say he can't miss with it! Like Parker guns Winchester built a few that have these qualities of proper balance. Maybe the 6lb 20ga. or the 6lb-6oz 16ga. have it? I own just one model 21, its a 16 gauge and its nice at 6lbs-8oz Its a early built, double trigger, pistol grip, splinter. The tubes are 26" and the gun does not have that special balance I want....close but not just right. Its muzzle end is too light and does not have that follow thou swing like the two Parkers noted above have. As a personal note....I like the look the Parker frame has over the 21. The 21 frame is long, plain and has little going on. They stole the bullet point look from the Fox gun and to own a grade above field that never had the fine engraving the Parkers have. The 21 are cost prohibitive in todays market due to the fact that few were made. So there you have it.....This is why the safe has so many Parkers and only one field grade 21 that I have not used to hunt birds with, why would I when I have such a bird shooting Parker gun that doe's not miss !!!!...(-: Thanks all SXS ohio

I'm surprised that no one has related the torture test story on I think it was the mod 21. Winchester or someone torture tested every dbl gun on the planet to where they broke but in the end were unable to hurt a mod 21 after some gawdawful amount of rounds. They finally just gave up. Someone must have the stats on that testing.

I believe that was John Olin's test for strength! The 21 tested never did fail.

Question: did anyone ever shoot them for long? Just asking because there are a couple of "reputable" dealers on the east coast that have dozens of them listed for sale, all of them in 95%-97% condition. ;-)

Umm...Hello...:bigbye:
My favorite part of the story relates that well after the failure of all of the other doubles,
Winchester began to disassemble their test gun and continue to fire it with integral parts missing to see if they could produce a failure.

Many East Coast 21s have been refinished. Model 21 guys know the difference. They're kind of like Purdeys. Real collectors know the difference. The "English guns are expected to be refinished" is a myth. English guns in original high condition sell for much more than refinished ones. Same goes for 21s except that there are more uninformed 21 buyers than English gun buyers.

Oh, I know how the game is played.

The test you refer to was written up in the DGJ a few years ago. It also featured the Walter Chrysler gun I believe

I have both in upland guns and I would select the Parker