More pics of DE-spl
 

Gun weight is 5lbs-2.5Oz 26" barrels.

Congrats on a fine gun Kenny. You have a great gun there.

No one can deny that the CSMC Foxes are finely made and beautiful guns. The question is are they really worth the eye popping price for a new one? Perhaps they are, but I am skeptical. Galazan has only itself to blame for that skepticism. Look at their asking prices for any used gun of any brand that they market on GunBroker. Its laughable---typically about two to three times what the gun is possibly worth, and consistently across all makers. When it comes to pricing credibility, CSMC has shot itself in the foot, IMHO. That's why I am reluctant to conclude that their Foxes are worth the price tag, especially when one considers that a British best in very sound condition can be had for roughly the same price.

I do not think CSMC is getting rich selling hand made guns. I think they do well on some items like A-10, RBL, mini tommy guns while guns like the Fox make very little profit. The number of Foxes are just to small. The size and scope of his operation carries the Fox production and allows it to happen. Those who want a gun like the custom Fox are lucky to have Tony willing to fool with them! I wonder how long they will offer them?.....few are being made due to the cost. Lou tells me my XE-16 Fox order was sent back to the factory and is in the system to be started...(-: SXS ohio

Kenny, beautiful gun. I too agree that Tony is not making much on the Foxes, when he had the semi trailer / showroom at the Vintagers a third of it was devoted to Model 21's over a third to RBL's and over on one wall sat four beautiful Fox custom guns. He sure was not highlighting them.....:shock: Which tells me he is not making a huge profit on them like the others. They are just plain beautiful guns and I an proud to own my FE.

Has any one ever asked Tony or Lou if they would make a custom Fox in 12g ?
Dave

I have been looking for the right Fox in 16ga. for years!!! Even thought about sending one out for full custom work. That turned out to be a huge undertaking and I got cold feet about the unknowns...dollar cost and time involved this and that kinda stuff. I looked a the few used CSMC Fox 16-s and never found one that was just what I wanted. I even called Lou about one I looked at with skeleton plate that Robbin Hollow still has that the pull was too long for me....Lou said it would be a big project and I would do better to order a new gun to my liking. After that conversation I started thinking about it???...man he was right! For just a little more I could do just that and have a gun made to order...sweet. So after long thought I called Lou back and asked about my two trades, told him what I felt was fair trade in values and he said bring em up. Plans were made and the deal is done! Now I started searching the web looking at all the CSMC Fox guns to get a better idea of what I like and did not like. My favorite gun and its twin was the DE-spl that Steve had on GI....I looked at that 28ga and its twin the 410 everyday. I could not take it! I called Steve about the 28ga. and made him a cash and one good trade offer. He agreed with no hesitation.....I was surprised at that!....the gun now has a new home. I am the 2nd owner not counting Steve. I liked the gun so much I called him to ask about its mate the 410...I was so dang lucky....its already SOLD!!! I might have took a loan on my house! SXS ohio

Steve is a great guy to deal with period! I would have had the CSMC DE 28 IF he could have traded but like I said before it's a consignment gun and I have two Parker 28's.

Ruff Hunter please tell me where I can buy a Boss, Purdey or Holland & Holland small bore for $20K. I have a very nice Holland & Holland Badminton 20GA (also purchased from Steve) that was significantly more than a CSMC Fox.

I admit that presently $35,000 is a little rich for me for one gun. Thinking about it 10 years ago I did not own any gun valued at over $4,000. Then, the thought of buying a $10,000 gun wasn’t something that I could comprehend. At least not for me. Today my safe has several exceeding that figure. Those five-figure guns are perhaps the only ones that appreciate in value! I’d be better off selling off most of my guns valued at less than $10k and investing those funds in high dollar guns.

What if today were yesterday? Let us suppose that it was the year 1900, give or take a decade. Most of us mature men would be shooting one or two DH grade Parkers or comparable grades by other makers. Those DH Parkers would have cost us the equivalent of $10,000 in 2015 dollars. Okay, I admit this is a hard comparison because there are so many economic factors to consider. For the sake of this please work with me… : )

At the pigeon or trap club there were a few gentlemen who sported AH grade Parkers which cost three times as much as did our DH. And heck, we could outshoot them DH vs. AH! Those AH shooters didn’t much care because they loved having the top of the line Parker. They let us handle and shoot their AH Parker and we think that maybe when the son has finished college and the daughter is married that maybe we would treat ourselves to an AH Parker. So a few years later we sit down with Arthur W. DuBray and lay down a year’s salary and order a custom made AHE. The AHE is delivered 6-12 months later and we shoot it on nice days for the rest of our life. Our wife may have lost her loveliness long ago, as did we, but the AHE never did. Beauty in our hands gave us pleasure as an old man as holding our lovely fiancée did decades ago.

Forward that scenario to today. We can purchase an AH, AHE, Fox DE, or other 100+ year old highest grade SMALLBORE vintage shotgun for $20,000 to $40,000. If we could find a 20 gauge AHE unfired, it might cost us $50,000.

Now, here is a guy who wants a gun made especially for him. He demands the finest wood, engraving, balance, and workmanship made to his specifications. A bespoke gun comparable to a London best. Okay, maybe a CSMC Fox doesn’t compare to a modern $100,000 London best gun but it is still a heck of a nice custom made for him gun. He orders a CSMC Fox and doesn’t look back.

For me, I do look at CSMC Foxes on the secondary market which sell for $15k and up. Maybe someday I will buy one just for its loveliness. To hold it in my hands as I slowly walk an upland field behind my aging dog. That alone for some reason will bring me pleasure and inspire memories and dreams of my younger days…

Rich, I have been lusting over that little CSMC Fox for at least 5 or more years. I first saw it on foxriversporting.com when it was listed for thousands less than it is now. It sold. A couple of years later it popped up on Barnett's site for thousands less than when Fox River Sporting had it listed. It sold. Now it shows up again on Barnett's site at ~ $9K more than the last time it was listed a couple of years ago. The best pics of this gun that I've seen are still on the Fox River Sporting site:
http://www.foxriversporting.com/prod...x-de-28ga-csmc

Alternatively to my last post one could buy an original AH Fox parts kit from Pumpkin Mountain and PAY a qualified gunsmith to hand fit all the parts, engrave the barrels and action, and finish to a high level. The labor alone would exceed $10k! A 20 gauge kit starts at $4,205. Add to that $700 to $1,000 for high grade English Walnut and the cost will exceed $15k!

XXX

I have more into Gunner's Gun than it will ever bring on the secondary market but to me it's priceless. To have a gun commissioned to your specifications is truly one of life's greatest pleasures.

I really haven't looked at shotguns much recently as I have been working on my M70 collection but seeing that Fox once again has me drooling once more. Where there is a will there is a way. If any gun ever screamed home equity loan it's this one IMHO but then again I'm a little creative when it comes to nice small bores:)

In just a few minutes, I found this one comparable example that's in the ball park of the numbers that are being thrown around...with a little more research, I suspect several more could be located.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=476422582

And if one is not firmly wed to the smaller bores, examples like this Purdey best 12 gauge start looking cheap compared to the CSMC Fox.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=477759751

I'm not saying the Fox isn't worth it, just that I'm initially skeptical due to CSMC's gross over-pricing of its inventory of used guns from other makers. Some time ago I checked CSMC's feedback on GB, and from what I could tell, it was all the result of selling accessories. It did not appear, at least at that time, that they had ever actually sold a used gun on that site. When a seller over prices some of its inventory like that, they should expect that people are going to become cautious of the cost of their other products, and that's my only point regarding the CSMC Foxes.

Not sure I agree with the "gross overpricing" assessment . They must sell them, otherwise they'd be outta business. You have to turn your inventory.

Ruff Hunter the H&H is a solid $10K over the cost of the asking price of the 28ga Kenny bought. The Purdey is a 12 so it's less expensive than a small bore.

Also you better take a close look at the Purdey barrels (very possible sleeved). I have a couple of English guns and I love them and I also love my Fox FE, they are different animals.

I'm glad that Greg brought up the fact that the CE Grade CSMC Fox was originally offered at $5650.00 (my recollection) or $5600, his recollection. That is quite an appreciation, more than any other mentioned here for other guns. I saw an AE Grade CSMC Fox offered for $5995.00. I may be mistaken about that price. How much would that sell for today? On clearing my memory, I recall that the AE CSMC 20 gauge was priced at $9995.00 at a time when the CE was selling for quite a bit more. I would have bought the gun from Tony if it were a 28 or .410, but it was a 28" 20 gauge.

There is nothing in the description that discloses sleeved barrels, and I don't see the typical vertical line that results from sleeving. What do you base your suspicion on? It would be unlike Vintage to offer a best gun for sale without disclosing something so material.

Justin, I am not saying it is or not, but look at the date of the gun and I wonder how many fluid steel guns were made and the price even for a 12 ga Purdey is very low (did you call and ask). I know Jay and he prices his guns fairly so again I wonder why the low price. I am not trying to pick a fight here, all I was saying was the Fox gun by CSMC is a very high quality gun with a ton of hand craftsmanship into it, and yes it is expensive but a new Purdey is also very, very expensive. Now I am done with this thread as you seem to want to poison this thread with your feeling about how Tony runs his business and not about the craftsmanship of the Fox guns which is what started this thread.

Eric,
Sorry you feel that way; and no, "poisoning" a thread is never my intent. I was merely responding to a question already being discussed by other posters. Nor do I harbor any ill will toward Tony or how he runs his business. I buy and use CSMC products frequently, and feel that we are fortunate to have a high quality double gun manufacturer in operation in the USA again. I have clearly stated my very limited observation of some of their pricing practices, and will not bother to repeat it again. As some folks apparently can't discuss a slightly opposing point of view without getting their feathers ruffled, I too am done with this thread. Sorry if anything I said somehow offended anyone.

Great back to guns. If this works what should appear is my quartette of CSMC Fox guns. I wanted one of each gauge. I hope Tony doesn't expand his offerings. I'm tapped out.
1. 410 Special
2. 28 FE Special
3. 16 DE Special
4. 20 DE
The 16 DE Special is the CSMC Catalog Gun.
Bob Jurewicz

Bob that is an excellent set of guns you have.:bowdown: I only have one of Tony's guns but it is a beauty and I have one AH Fox that is an upgraded Sterlingworth that's out getting a straight grip and a new stock. It's a 16 and will be Grouse ready this fall.

Robert....The 410 that has the setter is sweet! Looks like my Ruby....(-: Please put us in the will for that one! I promise to use it and never sell it.....SXS ohio

After owning and shooting the new CSMC Fox gun....I find them to be wonderful guns, made exactly like the originals. No one should look down there nose at these guns. Tony took no short cuts, they are flawless and made to perfection! I wish they offered a same quality hand made sterlingworth for about 10K !!! SXS ohio

I can't forget the CSMC "Early AE" Grade 20 gauge that Tony offered for sale at $9995.00 as I recall. I guess I should have bought it, but it was a 28" gun, not what I wanted to spend ten grand on.

I love my FE 410.

Lou from CSMC called yesterday 8-18-15 He called to tell me that my Fox gun was in the white and ready for engraving. We went over all the particulars about the work.....Lou was very excited to tell me that Richard Roy was sitting in his office and asked if I would like Richard to engrave my XE-Special two barrel set and that he could take it with him! I told him....yes with a big smile! Turns out that Richard Roy is who engraved my 28ga. DE-Special that is pictured a few pages back in this thread. My new (special) made to order gun is on schedule and there is good chance that it will make the grouse woods and rooster hides this year! ......Oh HAPPY DAY!!! (-: SXS ohio

I hope it makes it for this season. Nothing like starting hunting season off with a new shotgun.

Kenny, that sounds like good progress on your new Fox.

Just by coincidence I was wringing out a Connecticut Fox 20-bore XE Special along with a 16 Nitro Special this morning, doing some practice for the Northern SxS at Rock Mtn. Guns were born about 65 years apart and both "Specials" worked just fine for what they are :) Fox is 26-incher choked IC/Mod, and the Ithaca is 28-inch and Cylinder/Mod. Cell phone pic; quality isn't the best but here ya go. Shell boxes are opposite the guns: Remingtons in the Fox and I'm using up some 2-1/2" RST's in the Nitro which is chambered 2-3/4"

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/...psykup8q19.jpg

How did you do with the little Fox? I see its a single trigger gun....CSM is proud of their single triggers...$$$$ Good thing I prefer DT guns....(-: Our club has just re-opened after a pipe line was put through. I need to take my DE-special out and run it through some ammo...I have not shot it since it got a new left fire pin. It would not fire Fiocchi ammo reliably. CSM took care of it fast and free...SXS ohio

The Fox worked just fine mechanically and performance-wise despite switching guns on every other station. I didn't keep score. Yesterday was my first time through the Rock Mtn woodsy course since last winter and that was with another Fox 20 bore on a bitter cold day with a snow squall moving through. The Nitro is one I found recently and wanted to test out with its choke combo of 0 & 2 = cylinder and modified. Its cylinder choke does measure a few points of constriction. The Ithaca worked well too.

Kenny: Richard Roy engraved my XE
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...r/DSC_0007.jpg

When a long barreled Fox 20 comes my way it will undoubtly be a CSM gun.

I'm with COB. Instead of "settling" for a hard to find and probably overpriced 30" or 32" 20g Fox, I too will most likely get a CSMC Fox in the configuration I'd be looking for. Factory warranty and service if needed (thanks to Cold Spring for pointing this out to me) is always a plus. Until then that li'l 20g SW will suffice. :-)

I have a 28" Fox Sterlingworth 20 gauge that will do anything a 30" or 32" will do. Full/Mod chokes and deadly on Wood Ducks.

But, will it bring as much $$$$? :whistle:

Fortunately no, since I was recently a buyer for it.

CL....Just got home from camp and saw your post. Your RR engraved Fox is a dandy! My gun will look about the same as yours I think. I got the call on 9-17-15 that my gun was back from the engraver and will be shipped in about two weeks...(-: Richard Roy had my gun about 30 days to do the engraving. Its getting the metal finished now. It should be here in plenty of time for my Wisconsin grouse hunt. I am very excited about the Fox and also my first trip to Wisconsin. Ruby is in her prime at 4 years and 7 months. Gordons mature slowly and she finally is acting like a grown up! She is a good hunter and listens well. I hope to get her into many grouse, woodcocks she really needs it about now. I plan to take the new Fox 16, my little VH-16 O frame and ??? Soon as the Fox arrives I will post some pictures. Thanks all SXS Ohio....(-: 26 days till Wisconsin.......

Kenny can't wait to see pics of the gun. What a great way to start the grouse season..... Good Luck to you