"When I was a boy, ducks darkened the sky."
- George Bragaw, Sage of South Marsh Island (RIP)

Periodically, through the grace of God, they do so again and again. Now is one of those "agains" Take the youthful who are interested and worthy and put them "In the Blood", so to speak. If they disdain, no matter - it's not for everyone, but for those who take to it, they are the future of us afield with rod and gun again.

I think, with a little cooperation, this would be a fairly easy undertaking to launch. There are SxS shoots held in various parts of the country in which the pgca has a presence. We would have to establish rules and guidelines and get the event sanctioned by the BOD. Youth would be encouraged to participate and be entered in the drawing. Whoever is at the event representing the pgca could could contact the coordinator and let him know who participated and how many entries they get. At the designated time and place a winner is drawn. If things are kept light and fun and not made into anything more than a way to encourage youth participation it wouldn't be that hard to do.

Aside from David Dwyer's very generous $500 seed money offer (which is a big commitment for certain) we still haven't seen anybody step forward and offer to put on the "Youth Program Coordinator" hat and start the ball rolling.

It was a little over a year and a half ago that one of our fine members sent a "youth program" outline to the members of the BOD, in which he had been involved with a youth archery program. It was an extremely well thought-out outline and it left no stone unturned inasmuch as spelling out every step of the process. There's no reason why a PGCA Youth Program coordinator can't adopt this very same outline and adapt it to a program of our own.

The PGCA has previously donated handsome amounts to the youth shooting and firearms education programs of the NRA and Pheasants Forever. No sense in re-inventing the wheel, but it would be nice to expose youth to classic double guns.

I teach a lot of shot gunning at our local Boy Scout camp ( plus pistol and rifle , and cowboy action shooting in the summer) and I always bring along a 20ga Parker and let the advanced shooter kids break some clays with it.

I think I would consider it if no one else wants to do it. I enjoy kids and have worked with them in my karate schools for years.

Mike, thanks for your tentative step forward.

Please get in touch with Robin Lewis - he has expressed an interest in the PGCA Youth Program.

This may be a good start.

Now that we have a couple of guys who are interested in getting this thing off the ground it should be easy to find others who will be willing to get involved. All it takes is someone to show that this is nothing to be ignored and certainly nothing to be afraid of - the workload can be shared and the rewards will be gratifying.

At the ripe old age of 25, I promise to continue emptying my bank account to acquire more double guns.

If anyone in South Carolina would like to help begin a youth program of some sort, I would be more than happy to try and run with it. I have many friends my age that enjoy shooting sxs guns.

Thanks John!

This is really looking like it will go somewhere.

So, with Mike and John and with some good ideas from Robin it is getting very encouraging.
Thank you gentlemen! Onward and upward...!

John
I am in SC and shoot at Backwoods at least once a week. I also have several Parkers from 28ga to 10 ga I let people shoot. I will talk to Rick Hemmingway tomorrow about how to best go forward. Now we just need to see what commitment the BOD will make to this program?
David

At best, most kids view old SxS shotguns as novelties. I am a Scoutmaster with a troop here in Richmond and we take the boys out a couple times a year to shoot clays. This is in addition to the shooting merit badges at scout camp in the summer. I always bring a couple Parkers with low pressure 7/8 oz handloads, as well as blackpowder for a #1 frame hammergun. They LOVE it. However, in the final analysis they opt for the Benelli or some other modern contrivance because these things are convenient, can shoot off the shelf shells, and their friends and fathers have them. Plus, any kid who is serious in the sport wants a O/U. The care and proper feeding of a vintage gun takes time and effort, something their fathers can do but they cannot. Kids have numerous distractions nowadays. We see scout membership falling because of the myriad of sports and other activities dividing their time. These are facts. Sorry to be a downer, but this is my experience. Your mileage may differ. I think the PGCA should support existing efforts like Bruce noted. Special efforts to get kids shooting at events like the Southern are great, but that only happens when fathers/grandfathers are involved. Edward and I will be at the Southern. He's 18 now and first shot at the Southern when he was 12. I don't know how many more he will be able to attend with college, sports, etc. getting in the way. I'm hoping he will stick with it. If you ask him to choose between his Benelli and his 32" #2 frame DH 20 he would have to think about it.

Perhaps people could make contributions to the Parker Gun Foundation, a 501 c 3 organization, the contributions would be tax deductible, and the Foundation could fund the shooting activity.

My goal is to raise $5,000 and challenge the BOD to match it. I have raised 2,500 so far, so If you want to match my initial $500 let me know. Ed, Bruce, I hear you but we can make this work.
David

To paraphrase Edmund Burke:

"All that is necessary for the double gun to fade is that good men do nothing."

This thread has been interesting and after over a year of trying to get someone willing to become involved in promoting youth shooting I'm glad to see its being discussed. Even though as one person pointed out we are a Collector Organization, we are all aware that if a person is not introduced to guns and shooting at an early age they likely will never develop an interest in Classic Guns later on. I hunted and shot as a youth but never owned a SxS until about 12 years ago and now should probably be in some sort of therapy group. The point is I didn't need to be shooting a Parker at age 12 or win a free gun at 13 to one day develop a huge interest in the Classics later on in life when I could actually afford such things.

The PGCA as Bruce pointed out has made considerable donations to some very well developed youth shooting programs that already had the infrastructure in place to reach many young people. We felt that this would get us the most bang for our buck and we have continued that effort by donating along with the LCSCA the proceeds from the Challenge Cup the last few years. I believe these efforts should continue but that with the help of our membership our efforts could be expanded.

Like any program there needs to be one person to act as a point of contact. Even if several people elect to work together someone has to step up and be the voice for the group to avoid confusion. I believe we could all work together to come up with some guidelines where by the PGCA could offer some type of support to qualifying existing or new youth events at the local level anywhere in the US. A budget would need to be set and possibly a means to fund it, but that will need to be determined once a plan is in place.

Obviously we've only heard from around 25 of our 1400 members but I believe if we get the right people in place and a good action plan this could be something we could all be proud of.

I want tax deductible donations if I am to donate personally.

I also want something with broad scope. Donating personal money for a shoot to help youth who happen to be children of members in ( city), ( state), would not make me comfortable. The NRA and PF have broad scope but they lack classic double gun emphasis.

If we could couple with the NRA or PF at a shotgun shoot to have the kids shoot classic double guns, would that serve our purpose? That is what I do informally with Boy Scouts. We shoot 20ga's and I bring along a little 20 Browning Superposed and/or a Parker DHE 20, fluid steel barrels so we don't get into those issues. The only guns that hold up for us are Rem 870's and the old classic guns get a lot of wows in comparison. The youth and their dads are interested.

Larry
Mike Franzen jumped out and offered his services as "main man". Dave Fjelline has offered to be the coordinator in the west, Robin and Suponski in the NE, John Marscher and myself in the SE etc. I think we have the beginning of a good team.
David

I currently have a Parker Poster in the works that, once approved, will serve as some funding for this. A large portion of the money, after the cost etc. will be donated to this cause. The poster will have a limited run of 150 and if it is received well, I will try to do one every year, or bi-annually.

David,

My number is 843-816-5665. Lets figure out a good time to meet, possibly in the turkey woods?

We have a very necessary ingredient now... Momentum

If that is allowed to die... well, you can guess the outcome.

David,
That's great, now that the volunteers are in place perhaps your team should develop a plan outlining what you would like to accomplish and how best to achieve that end along with some guidelines to manage the program. Then it can be presented to the Board for discussion and approval at our next meeting at the Southern on April 23rd. I have some ideas that I feel could be useful as I'm sure others do and if you or Mike would like to discuss this further please feel free to give me a call at home any evening. Larry

I have expressed to Dean I would be interested in acting as coordinator for this project. I think it has merit. I also think it could be done simply and with little expense to the PGCA. I think of this as a seed planting endeavor. Maybe in some of the kids that seed will grow into the overwhelming, all abiding obsession we all suffer from. I don't see this as the ultimate solution or maybe even the best solution. But it is an outreach to a generation being lost to shooting sports. We're not going to save the future of collectability but you never know who this might affect and it might change things. It's been my experience that when a kid is introduced to firearms in the right way they generally love it. When they're introduced to old doubles they are curious and fascinated. Like most of us, at their ages they are shooting auto loaders, pumps, o/u's. But just maybe when they pick up that Parker, the age old mystique will communicate with them and they'll be hooked. I Love these old guns for no apparent rational reason. I don't mind investing my time trying to share that with some kids.

I think an exchange of ideas right here on the forum might be best in that it gets everything out in one exchange that everybody who is interested in it can read and contribute their own ideas to. Anything that is suggested or promoted here, in no way should be taken as 'adopted' by the PGCA or the Youth Program committee, but simply put out there for consideration.

Some ideas will certainly be unrealistic while others may well be worked into the draft or outline of the operation and management of a Youth Program.

I think to commit any real money to such a Program might be premature at this point - especially for the PGCA to do so without a very viable plan in place that has been thoroughly discussed and agreed upon.

Those who have volunteered should get together and develop a working plan, with all contingencies covered, and submit it to the BOD for discussion and approval before anything else is done.

Over a year ago Allen Newell submitted an outline that his sportsman's club had developed for a Youth Archery Program. It won't work, as written, for a PGCA Youth shooting and appreciation program but it has some very good points that could be incorporated in developing a PGCA Youth Program here.

The Brays Island show is coming up, the week before the southern, I think. That would be a good place for David and John and I to meet. The next question is what do we want to do to advance this idea?

Larry
I think you are getting the cart before the horse. I would like to see the board at tonight's meeting affirm their commitment to a youth program and develop a mission statement. I would also suggest you ask a BOD member to be the contact person on the BOD for us. I would think we could then have a plan together by the Spring SXS . My wife returns tonight from a week taking care of grand kids so tonight is hers.
David

I disagree David. I believe the group of volunteers for a Youth Program should put their ideas together and develop an outline and a mission statement and then submit it to the BOD for approval. This must come from the membership, not the BOD.

David,
I would suggest that if you would like to oversee the Boards meetings that you as a Life Member run for the Board in next years election. I will personally put your name in as you really need a good dose of reality.

We are too few trying to do too much and we are not going to put off final prep for the Southern, choosing a site for this years Annual Meeting, reorganizing the jobs of a departing Board member, or any of the other items already on tonight's agenda in order to start a new project. I think it was made clear earlier in this thread that the position of Youth Coordinator needs to be filled by a person or persons outside the Board.

The more member support we get the more we as a group can accomplish but there is only so much that can be heaped onto the shoulders of a few.

For a moment, back to the basics, as an individual — spot a kid, speak to the parents, invite a kid; spot a veteran, thank the veteran, invite a veteran.

Will you be having events west of the Mississippi or is this just for a couple places in New England and the Carolinas? I sure hope so because a lot of PGCA money came from out here., if the PGCA funds these things.


Bob, my buddy Charlie and I are veterans. Are we invited?

Dave Fjelline expressed an interest in doing something in California as well as the Calif. SXS Society too.

I believe there will always be a demand for high quality shotguns,both for shooters and for collectors.The demand is changing though.We are fast becoming more like Europe with put and take shooting preserves and more emphasis on target shooting.As we progress in that direction,the "average" double will decrease in value.However,I have seen a huge increase in demand and prices for top of the line guns.By top of the line I mean high condition as well as high grade.The best thing for us to do is to show as many younger shooters as possible that a gun is not a tool,but an expression of your love of tradition,nature. and sportsmanship.The collectors clubs like PGCA are the perfect vehicle to pass the message on.

So right you are Dean, I myself am a 31 yr old Parker collector and appreciator and ALL 5 of my children ranging from 13yrs old to 5 yrs old can identify a Parker from 10 ft away and LOVE shooting. my 3 boys (13, 11,9) all shoot a VH 12g 2 frame happily and occasionally knock off a shot or two with my OLD 10g hammergun and my girls (7,5) love to benchrest my 20g vh for a couple shots. Waiting patiently for them to get older.
Its all in what we teach them to appreciate. My kids are 5th generation shooting Parkers.

"5th generation shooting Parkers" is a great legacy!

Thanks for the encouragement.

I greatly appreciate and respect the work and dedication of the BOD!! I thought the approach was to supplement, not add, to the work the BOD was already involved in. My comment about last nights BOD meeting actually came from a BOD member, not me. This discussion, unfortunately, seems to have gotten a little contentious so I am going back to enjoying life.
David

There are several ready made youth shooting groups which could be interesting target marketing groups: the NCAA college level shotgun shooting programs the 4H shotgun shooting programs. I know nothing about 4H shooting, but have been to the NCAA shooting championships at the NSCA/NSSA grounds in San Antonio.
The kids were well coached (coaches, the guys to talk to first,) the kids were very enthusiastic and pretty darn good shooters. These kids are going to be in the gunning world, hopefully for a long time. Get some of them to be Parker Ambassadors to their own age group??

William, you are right. There are already present structured shotgun shooting programs that are ideal places to introduce kids to the world of sxs shooting. I am most familiar with the Scholastic Clay Target Program(started by the National Shooting Sports Foundation and supported by the MidwayUSA foundation) and the NRA Youth Hunter Education Challenge program. Both are national in scope. Our local club sponsors an SCTP team and we provide logistic support to the YHEC national event held in Mansfield, PA every other year. Both are prime opportunities to sneak in sxs promotion.

The SCTP program started a collegiate level category a few years back. It is growing in leaps and bounds. Schools like Yale, Harvard, and MIT have teams among others. These are not exactly bastions of conservative shooting values and yet they are thriving. Talk about kids that will one day have the discretionary income to become a Parker collector/shooter! The opportunities exist. We just have to reach out and touch them.

As I wandered through the Baltimore antique arms show with my son, looking for the Parkers amoung the various tables, I asked my son what he thought the average age was at the show. 63 he guessed. I wouldn't debate that. At 30 he has a great appreciation for the old doubles, and has a Parker P grade 16 ga I put together for him. He also has an AR, and other more modern guns. Appreciation for finer things only comes with access and ability to own such. I think our generation will need to work hard to draw the next from the video sticks, and black guns to the finer traditions of Parkers, Foxes and LCs. Absent that, I am not sure the value will survive.

Gary et al,

Today I went out to the National Sporting Clays & Skeet Shooting HQ in San Antonio to shoot some sporting clays with my Parker.
The SCTP Championship was going on: sporting, trap, skeet and 5 stand I believe. Colleges and universities from Harvard, Yale, Texas,to Schreiner and Connor were there.
I spent some time with Bruce Hering, who runs the South Eastern Illinois program. He has been involved in youth shotgunning for many years. A coupla years ago I spent the day out there with his team and was very interested and impressed. Bruce has several world class shots this year. One of the kids shot a 96 at the trap range yesterday. THE VERY SAME KID really went over my Parker 16 gauge DHE today and loved it. So did a number of other kids. Here is a great resource for us as lovers of classic American shotguns, especially Parkers.

Bruce, for those who don't know him has these credentials:

Bruce A. Hering; NSCA Lev III Inst.
Program Coordinator/Lead Instructor
Southeastern Illinois College
Shotgun Team Coach
2011 Division I ACUI National Champions
2011 SCTP Collegiate Champions
2012 ACUI Div II National HOA Champions
2012 SCTP Collegiate Champions
2013 ACUI Division II RU National Champions
2014 SCTP RU Collegiate National Champions

This guy knows what he is doing. He knows how things really work and how to get things done.

We talked over the idea of the PGCA getting into supporting youth shotgunning. Bruce is willing to kinda be the idea guy for this effort. He knows about everyone the leaders of this effort will need to know.

Email Bruce at : huntschool@aol and he will help.

I volunteer to help here at the San Antonio shooting center, where all the collegiate championships have been shot so far. They are now breaking into regional efforts.

Best Regards!

Keavin has swerved into a worthy thought here. But I do not necessarily agree that you must afford a good double to appreciate its character.

What helps a great deal in the realm of the double gun is an awareness that these things are not just guns. They are a unique confluence of form, function, craft and art. Their worth is intrinsic, not simply practical. The fine ones have a soul. If you doubt that, check the For Sale section of this forum and take a look at the Mortimer offered there.

This is what allows the SxS double gun to stand apart from a Remington 1100. Or even a Citori.

Ergo, the character and sophistication of a double gun must be presented to and appreciated by the young shooter as well.

Easy to say. I know...

Get them started on a Remington 1100. If they like it the SxS will come in time.