These guys who ordered these guns were trapshooters. That should explain a lot.

Live Bird Gun
 

Gents,

So different configuration same question: A 20ga 1924 VHE with 28" tubes engraving over where safety would be, no high stock and certainly not a trap gun? Was there a run on these orders in 1924?:)

More likely a plantation Quail gun. Carried empty in the saddle scabbard and only loaded when one dismounts and walks in for the flush.

Such guns are not common but there are a good number of them. "Plantation Quail Gun" as with "Live Bird Gun" can be used to ascribe a specific purpose for which a Parker was ordered but we have seen otherwise in the 'live bird gun' category and the same holds true for a 'plantation quail gun'. I know of a certain CHE 20 gauge with a straight grip and 30" Damascus barrels that was ordered with "no safety" and was shipped to Canada. I own a GHE 16 0-frame with 28" Damascus barrels that had the safety removed, obviously by an early owner, the tang filed and a rectangular cap of gold or brass with the gentleman's initial in Olde English Script soldered in place there.

In such cases, I think the owner was just sick and tired of missing shots because he forgot to flick the safety off. He was likely a gentleman who hunted over dogs and only loaded his gun when he was about to walk in on the point with gun at the ready and muzzles up. Not necessarily on a romantic plantation quail hunt but, as well, in the North Woods for ruffed grouse, woodcock, or any of the fowls of the stubble fields.

Thxs for the feedback Gents the origins of the "no safety"order is very interesting!

Some time ago on another thread I had posted on this subject. Dave S from CT has it right.

Frank Parmalee, a high average competition shooter from Nebraska ordered his Parker's sans Dolls-Head, and he was quoted in the early gunning pulps concerning his preference of Not having that particular obstruction when loading and unloading. Below are a few top images of a Parker DH from about the same time period Frank would have ordered his "No Safety-No Dolls head" Parker. This particular DH shown below spent some time in the Pacific Northwest, and if I remember correctly, it now resides in Maryland...

Best, CSL
_______________________

http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1DHnoDollsHeadA.jpg

_______________________


http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1DHnoDollsHeadB.jpg

_______________________

http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1ParmaleeYoung1899.jpg

_______________________

.

Yup, that fine gun is now in Maryland, in the hands of a true Pigeon Gun collector. By the way, I went to look at a way interesting Pigeon Gun today. DHE 32" vent rib, ejectors, late Miller trigger, original beavertail, no safety. This is the latest no safety pigeon gun I have seen in fifty some years of collecting. Late 234,000 range. I was tempted except for the stock which has an adjustable mechanism and no drop points. The price was high and the gun was not completely original. What do you think?

Thanks Chris. That D grade is very interesting as I think all the "No dolls head" guns I have seen have some sort of tell tale inlay in the dolls head mortise in the frame.

--------------------------------------

Appears to be an interesting Comp gun Murph, you know how the Trap & Live-Bird guys liked to modify their guns... It all sounds good, and as always, I like the "Miller-Trigger" part of the equation... What is a high price?... And, do you have photos to share of the Late 234,000 range "DHE 32" Vent/Rib Parker?

Best, CSL
_______________________

.

Having received some questions about the Parmalee photo, below are some particulars on this original 1899 image... Charles "Sparrow" Young is on Parmalee's immediate left... With thanks to "Dr. Drew Hause" for his continued research contributions... Overall image & text below...

Best, CSL
___________________________

"May 4-1899-Lincoln, Neb.--The world's record for a squad of five men, shooting at 20 targets each, made at Peru, Ind., May 3, was equaled by a squad at the Nebraska State shoot by the 5 man team of George Rogers, Lincoln, Neb.; A. B. Daniels, Denver, Col.; W. S. Duer, Hastings, Neb.; C. A. Young, Springfield, O., and F. S. Parmelee, Omaha, Neb. made a world's record of 100 straight."
_______________________________


http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1ParmaleeOA1899.jpg
_______________________________

.

Chris, could the gentleman in the dark jacket in the center of the group photo be the same fellow in the picture you provided to Austin for the cover of Vol. 16, Issue 4?

I've posted this before but thought it might add to this discussion.


November 23, 1901, The Sportsmen’s Review, in an article written by Gaucho entitled, “A Few Remarks on Some Celebrated Guns,” du Bray lists some prominent shooters and the type of guns they used. Those who made the Parker their choice of weapon were as follows:

Name --- Make -- Barrel Length -- Weight -- DAC -- DAH -- Stock Length -- Grip
W. E. Beesom -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 15" -- 1 7/16 -- 2 1/4 -- 14 ½ -- St.
W. L. Boyd -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 14" – 1 ½ -- 2 1/8 -- 14 1/8 – St.
C. W. Budd -- Parker -- 30" -- 7' 15" -- 1 ½ -- 2 -- 14 --
P. W. H. Colquitt -- Parker -- 30" -- 7 12"-- 1 1/4 -- 2 1/4 -- 14 3/4 -- St.
V. C. Dagan -- Parker -- 30" -- 8' -- 1 3/8 -- 3 -- 14 ½ -- P.
O. R. Dickey -- Parker -- 30" -- 7' 14" -- 1 5/8 -- 2 1/4 -- 14 -- St.
E. E. Ellis -- Parker -- 32" -- 8' -- 1 5/8 -- 2 5/8 -- 14 ½ -- P.
F. C. Etheridge -- Parker -- 30" -- 7' 6" -- 2 1/8 -- 3 1/8 -- 14 -- ½ P.
A. H. Frank -- Parker -- 30" – 7' 12" -- 1 1/8 -- 2 3/8 -- 14 -- St.
Fred Gilbert -- Parker -- 30" -- 7' 14" -- 1 3/8 -- 2 -- 14 1/4 -- P.
W. A. Hammond -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 15" -- 1 5/8 – 2 3/8 -- 14 3/4 -- St.
Jno. W. Harrison -- Parker -- 28" -- 6' -- 1 ½ -- 2 ½ -- 14 -- P.
Sam Hutchings -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 14" -- 1 ½ -- 2 ½ -- 14 ½ -- St.
J. F. Jordan -- Parker -- 26" -- 5 3/4 -- 2 -- 3 -- 14 -- St.
H. J. Lyons -- Parker -- 30" -- 7' 10" -- 1 1/4 -- 1 7/8 -- 14 1/8 -- St.
Geo. S. McAlpin -- Parker -- -- 7' 6" -- 1 1/4 -- 1 3/4 -- 14 ½ -- St.
J. R. Malone -- Parker -- 30" -- 7' 15"-- 1 ½ – 2 -- 15 -- St.
R. R. Merrill -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 14" -- 1 5/8 -- 2 5/8 -- 14 5/8 -- ½ P.
F. S. Parmelee -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 12" -- 1 ½ -- 2 -- 14 ½ -- P.
C. M. Powers -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 15" -- 1 1/8 -- 2 1/4 -- 14 3/8 -- St.
W. C. Rawson -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 15" -- 1 3/8 -- 2 -- 14 1/8 -- St.
R. S. Rhoads -- Parker -- 30" -- 7' 15" -- 1 1/8 -- 2 1/8 -- 14 ½ -- P.
C. E. Robbins -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 11" -- 1 ½ -- 2 ½ -- 14 1/4 -- P.
Frank Simpson -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 14" -- 1 ½ -- 2 3/8 -- 14 3/8 -- St.
Franklin Stearns -- Parker -- 32" -- 7' 15" -- 1 ½ -- 2 ½ -- 15 -- ½ P.
E. H. Tripp -- Parker -- 30" -- 8' -- 1 ½ -- 2 5/8 -- 14 ½ -- St.
S. A. Tucker -- Parker -- 30" -- 7' 14" -- 1 ½ -- 2 -- 14 -- St.
D. A. Upson -- Parker -- 26" -- 7' -- 1 1/4 -- 2 -- 14 1/4 -- ½ P.
R. Van Gilder -- Parker -- 27" -- 6" 2' -- 1 5/8 -- 3 1/8 -- 14 1/4 -- St.
Wm. Wagner - Parker -- 30" -- 7" 10' -- 1 1/4 -- 2 1/4 -- 14 --- St.
Dr. F. C. Wilson -- Parker -- 32" -- 7" 10' -- 1 ½ -- 2 1/4 -- 15 -- St.
Leroy Woodward -- Parker -- 30" -- 7" 13' -- 1 3/8 -- 2 -- 14 1/4 -- P.

The grip of choice for Budd was Prince of Wales.

I see a number of 1/2 P - what designation would a POW have?

I'm surprised most shot 30" barrels and no 34" at all.

The gun Chris posted pictures of shows no sign of a filled in doll's head from either end, even under magnification. The asking price for the vent rib DHE with the adjustable stock is $6999.00. There is just nowhere to go from there, considering the stock is trash, and the receiver is recolored.

Budd's grip was designated "PW". I assumed that stood for Prince of Wales. Not sure what the difference is though between the POW and the half pistol.

_____________________________

You are right Bill, That price is a bit steep considering the overall condition.

Best, CSL
__________________________

-----------------------------------------------

Dean, similar looking fella, but the not same guy. However the man in the dark jacket is holding a higher grade Parker. Below is a close-up image of his straight grip DH?, which appears to have a SB-plate...

Best, CSL
___________________________

http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1ParmaleeParkerA.jpg

.
______________________________

Nice thread whoever referred to trapshooters as being cheap must either be one or knows a few. :)

Bill please check your PM

OK. So now I have heard it all on the live bird, trap, configuration. I have looked at the bevertail and it is checkered properly for a Parker, but of a higher grade than V. This gun also sports a rounded pistol grip instead of the Standard flat configuration . The forend has the proper bbl. lug for a beavertail and the stock looks original to the gun. I would upload pics but tried and have failedd.
Advise on how to do that so you gents can get a look and opine on this gun would be appreciated.
Bruce

All: Thanks. The gun has a Beavertail and I checked it has the proper bbl lug for that. The checkering seems of a higher grade than a VH and the buttstock has a round nob pistol grip stock not the standard Flat nob. All that being said the stock and checkering looks original to the gun. I would down load pics but tried and cant figure it out could any one tell me how to do it so I can get some pics up.
Thanks

Gents: How do you post pics here. Been trying but cant figure it out. Want to share pics of this VHE. Gun has a Round Nob Pistol Grip. But the Stock looks original and the checkering looks Parker. Also the Bevertail checkering seems to be of a higher grade than V but the forend iron is the proper iron for a Beavertail. Gun is a mystery.

go to www.parkerguns.org and click on the FAQ link on the left side of the page. In the FAQ page, scroll to the bottom and you will find two links to short videos on posting picture to the forum.

OK. Thanks and tried that but for some reason my computer will not download the video.
I will keep trying:(

Bruce - If you can email them to me, I'll post them here for you.

jdallas1 <at> msn.com

Thanks so much. Just took about 6 or 7 and sent them to you. Your help and the help of all the guys on this forum and in this assosciation is spectacular. I know that someone jeweled the attaching iron on the forend. Other than that and the fact that I have never seen a Prince Of Wales pistol grip on a Parker (although I know they made them) the gun wood looks original. The checkering is of a higher grade than a V but certainly appears to be factory (proper borders). The attaching iron is proper for a beavertail and as you can see by the pics the gun was ordered from the factory without a safty as it has factory engraving over the slot. The guns serial number will not letter unfortunatly.
Thanks to you and to all the guys who have given of their time and knowledge on this string.
Bruce

Here are Bruce's pix:

A few more:

Big D: What a gentelman. Thanks so much now maybe I can get an idea of what I have from real experts instead of just guessing.
Again thanks to all.
Bruce

The buttstock looks original to me but I would be surprised if that forend wood is original or even a replacement by Parker Bros. or Remington. I can plainly see that the forend iron is correct for a BTFE and the checkering is suggestive of an original - but the shape and contour of the forend wood causes raised eyebrows.

One more thing... I don't see any ejector rods protruding from the front of the frame knuckle. Maybe the angle of the camera is the reason?

Dean: Thanks for you input. The gun is clearly a special order gun. Prince of Wales grip and no safety. The forend iron as you point out is correct. I expect that you are correct, but if the gun was special order then anything is possible.
Bruce

I agree Bruce and we have seen some really strangely shaped beavertails and greatly exaggerated cheek risers on Parkers but you can count them on one hand and the order books support the configuration of those guns as they are today.

That forearm is absolutely strange, but I would buy that gun.

Come on Bill :) THIS is strange :shock:

Feb. 1915 Forest & Stream
http://books.google.com/books?id=lRM...AJ&pg=PA115&dq

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../410494177.jpg

There's one even stranger in an early Parker Pages.

Guys: Thanks so much for your input. As there are no records for the gun, I will continue to believe based on the color and the overall feel and checkering that this is the original forend. I am going to sell it and wanted to give an accurate description. So I guess I will have to say "I believe" instead of I " warrent". Any one have an idea of the value?
Bruce