I think it was less....I called or e-mailed but it was sold. I think BB collectibles bought the one that sold at auction that I bid on, then listed it on the net for much more! remember He must still have that one? everything is sketchy......

Kenny, regardless of what is printed in a magazine twenty years ago, the 00 frame barrels marked 0000 have a different pin separation from the "real" 0000 barrels. As I recall, the 0000 "real" barrels have a pin separation identical to the Parker Brothers 000 frame. They are not the same, they don't fit back and forth, and the barrels that you have on your 28 gauge do not fit the 0000 frame BHE guns. Just to miss with your mind a bit, "Remington made 28 gauge guns on the 000 .410 frame." I don't know where the one is that I inspected and measured, but I have the serial number in my files. It is absolutely a factory gun.

Kenny, I just reread your last post. You bid on the Petersen BHE .410 and lost it to an $11,000 bidder??

Now I remember....The buyer premium adds up fast...wish I could of hung in there.. )-: So what I gather is the 410 barrels that mate up with 28ga. guns are really 00 frame barrels that are miss marked....this is ware the confusion lies...(-: Now I can make sense of all this. Anyway I really like the 00 frame 410-s I own...and now that Im informed I will be on the look for one of them baby frame 410-s (-: thanks all SXS ohio

Yup, there she lay.

Larry Baer's set
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=396913167

I wonder how you put a value on a gun like that?

I have seen a standard finished 3 barrel A1 set sell....asking price was 50K...sell price unknown. A DHE 410/28 three barrel set sold for 14500.00 This set could be completed 10-15K I would think?? and it would be done exactly as the owner wanted! , not some ones elses dream gun. That said 30K sounds about right....25K would be better deal and leave some room for dealing with craftsman. I want a hi grade SXS one day built for me., I think it will be a Fox 16 with ejectors...(-: Thanks all SXS ohio If this was a double trigger set I may have offered 25K??????BANG HEAD

Larry Baer's set is a nice one, but I would still rather have a 0000 .410 in the same unengraved condition.

Me too, with double triggers.

Here's a 00 DHE 3 barrel 28/28/410:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/PAR...n_id=100108849

(I'm still new to these forums and learning protocol, so if it is inappropriate to post these links, particularly to auctions or guns for sale, moderator please advise/remove.)

Kenny, buyer's premium or not, $11,000 is not the place to give up on a $35,000 shotgun.

Bill, as I previously stated, Paul Dorsa had the gun for sale on his table in Vegas. He had it tagged at $25K, but told me, with a smile on his face, that that price was negotiable.

I believe I still have his card with contact info. PM me if you'd like his phone number. :)

Here are pics of the BHE 0000-frame .410 that Kenny bid on. (This is not the topic-of-this-thread Paul Dorsa BHE/DHE engraved gun).

Here it is . . . beyond rare . . . the very subject of this thread . . . a 0000-Frame .410 BHE with DHE engraving. (Notice it has a BHE-style engraved toplever, but no barrel wedge engraving--I must have mis-remembered that it was sans the barrel wedge when I first saw it in Vegas--over excitement and bewilderment you know!). Now for sale with Steve Barnett:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/PAR...n_id=100530527

The BHE 410 is on gunsinternational now at $27,500.The item number is 100530527.It is a great looking gun.It looks like a prototype to me.They did a good job of blending DHE and BHE.A possible one of a kind.

I'm a bit surprised Barnett has it's listed weight as being 5 lbs. 15 oz., a 28-ga. 00-Frame Repro will typically weigh less than that.

I'm curious as to why a B grade gun would be engraved as a D grade. It defeats the purpose of buying a B grade.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I read somewhere that the dimension between firing pin centers of the 0000-frame and the 000-frame are exactly the same and the only thing that makes it a "0000-frame" is the number of zeros stamped on the lug.

I'll take a crack at that one Dean . . . I, too; have read the pin separation is the same on both the 000-frame Parkers and the 0000-frame Parker Reproductions, but I believe there are a couple more dissimilarities than just the frame size stamping on the barrel lugs. Now, I have not had the opportunity to actually measure any of these frames, but from viewing them the 0000-frame Repro barrels appear more "internal" to the frame compared to the 000-frame guns. In addition, the 0000-frame doesn't have the step-down in the barrels as does the 000-frame Parker guns.

Dean, actually, the 0000 mark on the lug would be there on 00 barrels as well as 0000 barrels. That's just the way the Repro factory marked them. So then it gets complicated. If I am right about the firing pin distance, the 0000 receiver would be different from the 28 gauge 00 receiver. My recollection is that the genuine 0000 receiver has the same pin separation as a factory Parker Brothers 000 .410 receiver. In addition to the different appearance of the breech balls, the pin separation is different on the Repro 00 and the Repro 0000 .410 guns. The pin separation on the 000, and supposedly the 0000, is 13/16". The separation on the 00 frame, whether original Parker Brothers or Repro 28 gauge or .410 on the 28 gauge frame, is 15/16". Now, I am working from memory from when I measured 0000 Repro pin separations that were in the possession of Geoffroy Gournet. Maybe the owner of a 0000 frame BHE or Gournet custom could confirm. I believe I also measured pin separations in 0000 frames when Kevin McCormack and I had a couple of 0000 frame Repros in our display at Baltimore a few years ago.

Now that some generous posters have provided us with pictures of the real 0000 frame Repros, guys like Greg and Kenny will have a better understanding that you don't need a scale or calipers to identify one. They are just plumb different in outer appearance.

I had no idea that I didn't understand what I identified as a 0000-frame BHE/DHE engraved Repro was when I started this thread. Thank you for pointing that out, Bill. It just goes to show that you can learn something new here everyday! :confused:

Greg, I know this thread was hard reading, but I think the information has gotten out. I have probably handled more 0000 frame Repros than anyone but Geoffroy and the Skeuses, but have never owned one. When I saw the Mike Weatherby ad in Shotgun News a few decades ago ($16,000), I knew I never would. I wish I could have talked to Paul Dorsa before he sold his.

Although I'm not privy to it, I have a hunch that Paul Dorsa still owns the gun and has it on consignment with Steve Barnett, but I could be wrong.

Thanks for the info.

For what it's worth, Steve Barnett has a OOOO frame BHE up on his site.

News Flash for you Chris, we discussed this listing close to a month ago, starting back on pg. 6 of this thread.

I guess I'll mind my own business, didn't mean to waste your time.

No need to apologize Chris, I'm quite sure Steve Barnett appreciates the mention.

Well, what goes around comes around . . . this very gun that I had mentioned seeing on the late Larry Baer's table at the Beinfeld '14 Winter Vegas in the 1st post of this thread and subsequently listed on GB without finding a buyer, will now be offered in the upcoming Oct. 6 & 7, 2015 James D. Julia auction.

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2388-386/

Apparently Mr. Baer was a pretty good engraver himself. Check out his custom Grullas in the auction.

Another rare Repro seen was being offered by Larry Baer. An A-1 Special in-the-white 3 bbl. set in its factory O & L case. 28/28/.410 on a 00-frame. Reportedly the only one ever produced.

Just to close the loop on this in-the-white and unengraved Parker Reproduction A-1 Special 00-frame bi-gauge 28/28/.410 3-bbl. set . . . Julia's did find a buyer for it. The new owner paid at least $26,450.00 to get it . . . and probably only has ~ $10K or so to go to complete it.

The bigger question is "What happened to the 0000 frame .410 that Steve Barnett was selling for Paul Dorsa?" It doesn't seem to be on Steve's website today.

Well, as our friend the late Ed Muderlak would've said . . . "The investigation continues."

I would investigate the gun a bit more , im sure you checked to make sure the the bbls and the frame have the same serial#s , I am agreement with others that d grade engraving is a definite detract and I could be wrong , I don't think it will be treated like a double struck coin .
When a collector is buying a gun , particularly a Parker Reproduction if anything you would like to find the B grade with higher grade engraving , and on some original Parkers on rare occasion you would find a D grade gun with an extra duck or some extra engraving on the gun , again this is rare but it did happen , and sometimes a special order gun may have the extra embellishments.
I would say the wrong engraving drives the price down , none the less , this makes it a target for the seller to have to take a lower price , particularly once the news has travelled
and the seller knows what he has , and the item has not sold for some apparent reason.
Good luck on your venture.
Dave Kerns PGCA member#1691

In going back and re-reading this thread it brings up several unanswered questions regarding these very alluring and intriguing little 0000-frame Repros. Questions like -- where did the numbers in the production chart for the .410s come from? Are these documented numbers, or are they assumptions? The 33 listed DHE .410s do not mention what size frame they were built on, nor do the 9 BHE 410s. Another question brought up in another thread was -- Do the .0000-frame production Repros with beavertail forends have the reinforcement rod?

Then we have the Nick Sisley quote in an article that he wrote about Parker Reproductions in the Jan/ Feb 1996 issue of Shotgun Sports magazine where he writes -- "Finally, the factory started 133 .410s on the tiny 4/0 frame. They completed 33 of these, and that's when production ceased. . . . As for the 100 partially made .410s on the 4/0 frame, Jack Skeuse continues to build as time and experienced gunsmiths permit." OK, here we have some numbers, but no mention of what grade they were finished out in.

Then, to add to the confusion regarding the 9 BHE .410s in the production chart, we have this -- a .410 BHE Repro on a 0000-frame -- the 2nd 4/0-frame BHE to be found with DHE-style engraving, Serial No. B .410-0052 . . . if there were only 9 built, how do we explain this gun at #52? Can we answer that without a question?

The number 52 can be explained by realizing that by popular rumor, 133 were started. There are probably a few of them still out there, but they are buried deep and will be expensive.

Wow, that is certainly is a different response to the 9 BHEs you claimed were built back on page 3 of this thread.

The nine BHEs were completed guns, or maybe there were 33.