"It was a dark and stormy night...."

I am guessing that the wad and shot create a vacuum when exiting barrel. This would pull the base wad forward. Dave

Holeshot:
Think of it... wad and shot are being propelled by positive gas pressure. When they exit the muzzle, there is no pressure. then the atmosphere wants to "neutralize" the pressure condition inside the barrel by rushing inward... could there ever be a vacuum between a pressure condition and a "neutral" condition?

Just thinking out loud. Possibly wrongly.

Best, Kensal

I think Jent has it right. Gas gets behind the base wad by going past the primer, As the shot charge goes down the barrel, the pressure drops, but there is still enough pressure trapped behind the base wad to move it into the barrel

Jent's theory is as good as any and better than most!

Thanks Jent!

very interesting... hope we get to the bottom of this.... charlie

Notes to go along with Sherman Bell loads spreadsheet.

Gentlemen:
As part of this thread, some posters made a rather strong point made about the base wads of Federal 10 Ga. plastic hulls coming loose upon firing and lodging halfway down the barrel -- obviously creating an obstruction.

These are the exact hulls I use in my old W & C Scott, so I decided to go beyond anecdotal evidence and pose the question directly to Federal. They have responded thus:


"From time to time we hear about the base wads of shotshells being "sucked out" of a hull and traveling down the barrel to obstruct the bore. In the past years we have shot millions of test shotshells in all gauges here at Federal Cartridge. We have never been able to duplicate or confirm that the base wad of a shotshell has become out to be an obstruction. While we may agree that it "could" happen the likelihood is so small that we believe it is not very probable. The only way that we believe that the base wad can get pushed into a barrel is for the primer o somehow get beneath the paper base wad, which would be extremely unlikely. We would also expect that in this unlikely event there would be an off sound and an incomplete ignition of the shotshell. We hope this information has been helpful.

Thanks
Federal"

This may, or may not, convince certain posters on this site. But it tends to put my mind at ease.

Best, Kensal

Jent: I agree with you. Federal isn't reloading the sin out if their shells to see how long they last... They only want to test the safety & performance of their product (brand new) - that's the only thing they will "warrant."

My bottom line summation is this: ALWAYS look down your barrels ! Blow out the smoke & be sure all's clear. (Heck, I even check my bores periodically while hunting - just to be sure I didn't jam snow, etc. in the muzzle.)

One can't be too safe...

Have a good weekend to everyone !

I read Federal's response above, they did not say it could not happen, they said the likelyhood is so small making it improbable. Rare events do happen, black swans. I have no reason to doubt it happened to Jent. Perhaps the chance of this happening is along the lines of being struck by blue sky lightning, it happens to people. I think a good point has been made, it is a good idea to make a habit of checking your barrels between shots which is simple to do on a break action gun. Hard to do when speed is important, shooting crows for instance, but always a good idea.

Anybody remember the old Peters Blue Magic's in 12ga? After several reloads they would routinely break off above the brass head and the rest of the hull would get launched.

the base wads will come loose even in 8 ga winshester hulls after several reloadings.... charlie

Gentlemen:
Please consider this:
Any company who offers primed hulls and primers for sale to reloaders must accept liability for the safe use (repeated is implied) of those components. (and I know all about the disclaimer on the packaging) To assume that Federal only fired new ammunition in its tests fails to detect base wad dislodgment gives this fine company no credit for even basic legal intelligence.

Perhaps I should have included the text of my question to Federal so that their answer might be more fully understood. So here it is:


"Federal:
There is a rather anxious discussion on the Parker Collector's Forum about the base wads of reloaded Federal 10 Ga. hulls coming loose upon firing and traveling about halfway down the barrel of a double barrel shotgun to lodge and obstruct the bore.

At least two people say this happens with "target" loads.

I load your cases with VERY light 1 1/8 oz. target loads myself ( 21 grs of Clay Dot, BP Deci-Max wad and Win 209 primer) and have not had this problem. However, I am now concerned.

but I still cannot understand what kind of force would propel a base wad out of the case and down the barrel when the entire barrel has positive pressure until the shot and wads exit the muzzle.

Do you know of this problem with 10 Ga. base wads coming loose?

Do you know how it may happen?

One poster on the Parker Forum explained it this way:

"I have been told that this happens due to a poor gas seal in the primer pocket. The explanation went something like this, the shell is fired, the psi begins to build, the gas seal on the primer is not good, gas leaks by the primer, psi keeps building, higher and higher pressure is building down by the primer pocket BELOW the base wad, higher and higher and higher pressure builds, finally the primer pocket seals as the shell swells up and gets tight in the chamber and against the breech, high pressure is still everywhere in the barrel because the shot/wad has not flown out the muzzle yet and that high pressure is still down by the primer, which finally stopped leaking. Now the shot/wad flies out of the muzzle and the pressure in the barrel drops rapidly BUT there is still a little high pressure gas trapped below the base wad by the primer and the pressure wants to get out and get equalized so it pushes the base wad forward. It sounded like a good explanation to me."

I'd sure like to hear from the Federal experts on this because I rely on your 10 Ga. hulls for my shooting."

Under this circumstance, I don't think they misunderstood the issue.

While I do not doubt that some base wads may have come loose, the circumstances under which they did cannot scientifically be determined. Thus, they must remain suspect.

Best, Kensal