Looks to me like your doing a pretty nice job. Going to make a nice wall hanger.

Thanks, Wayne. Also, thanks for your lead to Brian Dudley. I've been in touch with him and he has seen photos, etc. He is able to supply the missing screws and is willing to help with internal cleaning of the action parts. After seeing the left barrel photo he agrees this is not a shooter--at least not with these barrels. I wish we had found better barrels, but there you have it.

Thank you for the help, Brian!

In other news, the extractor finally came free yesterday evening. No damage. Just temporarily seized by some bright rust, so that's excellent news. Once free, the rust easily came off the extractor shaft and the bore that it slides in. The barrels and receiver then locked up real nicely.

Patrick if you join the PGA you will have axcess to the for sale section, It is possible to find a set of barrels for your gun. Their is usually lots of prodject guns for sale. Sounds like you enjoy these projects. Just be carfull you will get hooked.

Patric it aLL breaks down to its your family gun. Any of these parkers can be bought back to shooting condition if you want. Its simpley a matter of economics vs what you want and can afford. It will always be your family gun. that makes it worth a lot to your family.

I need some more advice. The trigger guard strap is frozen in place--presumably by rust.
Obviously, I will need to free it so I can pivot it out of the way when remounting this assembly on the stock. I've cleaned the painted finish off the base of the strap since this photo was made, and I have had Kroil soaking around the base of the strap screw for a day or so. Now, for a display of my ignorance: There is another threaded hole in precise alignment with the strap pivot hole. It's on top of the trigger block in this view. It appears only to go through to the trigger plate, but it's very difficult to tell for sure. If this were a single threaded hole, running all the way through the trigger plate, I could use the Kroil in the shaft, and get more direct flow to the threads below. Could I get that lucky? I doubt it, but I'm sure some of you have dealt with this ahead of me. Thanks for any advice you can give.

Patrick,
I can tell you that when I received one of my Parkers I turned the trigger guard so I could check the serial number underneath the trigger guard tang. Mine turned easily but there was only one hole. If I can say this properly, the trigger guard is the screw head and you simply need to turn the trigger guard. Obviously easier said than done if yours is rusted tight. I would put some more oil in there and let it set for another day or so. Then if it doesn't unscrew by finger pressure I would gently and I really mean GENTLY use something non marring such as a screw driver handle and put a SMALL amount of pressure on the screw by putting it through the trigger guard. You don't want to bend the guard but sometimes a bit of leverage is just enough to free the rust hold and then will let it unscrew. Good luck with it. Probably others will have better ideas but that is mine.

Dennis

I have had many shotguns apart and have never had one frozen. The hole on top of the trigger guard that your refuring to is a through hole. fill it with penatrating oil and let it soak. Instead of useing kroll oil use some Break Free. One of the best penatrating oils I have ever used. Be carfull I have seen lots of broken trigger guards. The trigger guard is right hand thread so turn it counter clock wise. You probable already know that.

Thanks, Dennis and Wayne. Yes, I knew from experience with my modern double gun that the trigger guard should turn out counter-clockwise. And I can see from the parts illustration in the tech section that the screw in that sample threads all the way through the trigger plate. But this old hammer gun has that big block up inside the stock to receive the tang screw from above. When I look into the hole from that side and measure its depth, it appears to go all the way through the block. I just couldn't tell if I was seeing the trigger plate at the bottom, or if I was seeing the end of the trigger guard screw. I was hoping it was the latter. Thanks again, guys. I appreciate the help. Wayne, if Kroil doesn't penetrate it tonight, I'll go look for some Break Free tomorrow. Don't worry, fellas, I'll be gentle with it. Will report back.

Patrick,
Mix up some acetone/automatic transmission fluid in a 50/50 ratio. This has worked for me on some very stubborn screws. Tap on the part of the trigger guard that is threaded with a plastic or leather mallet. Re-apply. Tap again. Repeat until she breaks loose. Good luck.

Daryl, now that's an interesting suggestion. I'm not debunking it, either. But I'm curious: How do you keep the acetone from striking off in your mixture? In my experience, acetone strikes off about as fast as denatured alcohol. Let me know, because if the Kroil doesn't work tonight and the Break Free doesn't work a few days later, I might need to try it.

Patrick, I can attest to the success of the acetone/ATF mixture. I mix about 6 oz. at a time and keep it in a sealed pickle jar (I don't think it had to be a pickle jar, but that was the cleanest one I found in the recycling bin) I used some today. mixed months ago. Minimal torque required to break a nut loose, on a steam engine that's been out of doors most of it's 142 years. (See my thread about chores completed in the off-topic forum)

Well, dang! That's cool, Edgar! Okay...you guys have now persuaded me to mix a batch just on general principle--whether or not this pesky trigger guard soaks itself loose tonight.
I still can't figure out what keeps the acetone from evaporating once you actually use the stuff, but I am convinced it has worked for you guys, so it'll most likely work for me, too.
Thanks, fellas! I'll report back.

If it works let me no. I may have to try it.

Is this mixture a floor wax, dessert topping and will it double as moonshine too? I sure wish I lived near some of you gentlemen. I sure learn a lot on this forum and I say that seriously. As my 5 year old granddaughter says when she gets angry at her parents, "I want a new family."

Dennis

Patrick,
I can't explain why the acetone does'nt evaporate before it's job is done but all I know is it works. Most commercial penetrants are petroleum based and ATF is not only a superb lubricant but a great cleaner as is the acetone. Maybe someone among us has an advanced degree in chemistry and can chime in. I mix the solution and store it in a little plastic bottle called a "Zoom Oiler". They can be found at most commercial refrigeration supply houses and at WW Graingers, which are found in most cities.

Hi, Guys. I didn't have time to pick up Break Free or Automatic Transmission Fluid over the weekend, but picked those items up over my lunch break today. However, based on your advice, I was inspired to try my own experiment over the weekend. Sunday afternoon, I thinned some Kroil about 50/50 with acetone, and used a small, round artist's paintbrush to fill the threaded shaft with this mixture. I taped over the hole to minimize evaporation of the acetone. Then I painted this mixture on liberally all around the base of the guard strap screw. I let everything soak for 24 hours. Late today, just before mixing up a batch of ATF and acetone, I decided to give it another try. I couldn't figure out how to safely tap anything without marring the delicate edge of the guard strap. So I improvised two clamping cauls: A round one for the inside of the guard, made from a piece of large dowel, and a flat one for the outside. I gently clamped these cauls in a vise grip pliers and then gently applied some counter-clockwise torque. On the second try, the whole thing let go very suddenly, and scared the heck out of me. I quickly confirmed that I had NOT sheared off the guard screw, and everything was okay. Believe me, I offered some quick prayers of thanks over that happy outcome! Anyway, there is no evidence of rust in the screw threads or shaft threads. It looks like hardened old grease to me. I can't be sure if that was the problem, or if the base of the strap was still painted shut with shellac, but it doesn't matter. I think perhaps the addition of the acetone helped. So I didn't get a chance to try the home brewed penetrating mixture you guys recommended nor any Break Free. But I am pretty sure the addition of acetone to the Kroil did something that just wasn't happening previously.
I do want to thank you guys for your suggestions and encouragement. After this assembly is cleaned up, I can move on to the stock inlets. Those don't worry me too much. As a guitar builder, I am very familiar with cleaning up wood messes--including French polish.

Great. Glad it turned out for you. Live and learn.

Hey, Guys, I'd really like to find a replacement butt plate for this gun, but I'm not having any luck. I've shopped all around on the web and found plates for frame sizes 0, 1 and 2. I just spoke with Chris at Vintage Gun Grips, but he was unable to help me. This gun is a size 3 frame, and it has a spurred butt plate--very worn and with the toe broken off. Surely someone must make butt plates for the size 3 frame stock. Can anyone give me a lead? Sure appreciate it.
Patrick

Have you taken the old one off? The size number is impressed on the inside. It's probably a #2 butt

Hi, Edgar. Thanks for your response. Yes, I removed the old plate (It's very worn and about an inch is missing from the toe). It's not marked with a size on the back side. I tried a #2 reproduction plate and it was too short. I sent a tracing of the butt to Vintage Gun Grips. Very nice people there, but they were unable to help. Their longest is nominally 5 & 7/16". Looks like I would need a spur butt plate more in the range of 5 & 9/16" long. I guess I'll have to put the broken plate back on, but everything else cleaned up so nicely I was hoping to find a better plate. The folks at Vintage Gun Grips would take a mold of a plate this size, but mine isn't in good enough condition (even if it were complete) to satisfy their customers. Further, it appears they make a lot of the products sold by other outlets, so I'm just not finding anything larger than 5 & 7/16". For the time being, it looks like I'm stuck.

Patrick, I got one in the members only forum, In wanted to buy. A fellow PGCA member helped me out. Becoming a member has its advantages. Dave

the old 8 ga i got from mills extractor was stuck in place but with a lot of patience it came free...you could not even put a shell in the barrel it was so rusty but after a lot of oil and a bore brush it now excepts shells..the gun was off face 1/4 of and inch...i m shooting it now fired it 8 times this past sunday with smokeless powder... you can make a shooter out of this gun you have just be patient... charlie

Dave, thanks for the nudge towards membership. I just joined. Charlie, thanks for the encouragement. By the way, guys, here's why I'd rather not put this plate back on the stock--and also why I'm sure no one would be interested in making a cast of it. But it does raise another question: Considering this is not a fancy gun, and not shootable with the current barrels--probably destined to be a wall hanger--is there any point in preserving this old butt plate? I mean if I can luck into a replacement?
Patrick

The break looks straight enough that I would try splicing a piece to that plate. thanks for joining, the people on this forum are the best and always helpful. Dave

Hi again, Dave. Yes, I've thought about splicing a piece on, and I can easily do that sort of thing if I can find the material. Coming up with hard rubber for a splice might be a problem. I also thought about splicing a piece of dyed wood. And I've even considered making my own replacement butt plate (including the spur) out of walnut. It obviously wouldn't be authentic, but I've got the tools and experience to do it and make a perfect fit. Yet another option would be to cover the plate with a vintage-looking leather pad. Before jumping into any of those plans, I think I'll post an inquiry and see if anyone has a plate they would allow to be molded. Thanks for the suggestion.

Jeezus! I just want that gun to speak up and tell us what it's been through! What a story it would have to tell.

Hey, Richard, as I've dug my way through this old piece, I've come to have exactly the same feeling about it. Looking at that butt plate, you can tell that it has recoiled against someone's shoulder hundreds or thousands of times. Looking at the barrel weld repair, I speculate that the owner burst the barrel, had it welded by Bubba at the blacksmith's shop, and kept right on shooting it. I've wondered if it belonged to a professional market hunter back in the day.

But here's the best part: I have a buddy who is not only an avid shooter and fishing buddy of mine, he's a band mate with me (he plays tenor sax against my guitar in a jazz quartet) and who's also a short story writer. A week ago, he emailed me and said: "What are you working on that would inspire me? I need story material." I answered: "Come over and I'll give you story material." I showed him all the details of the gun--the wear on the butt plate, the weld on the left barrel, etc. etc. Then I said: "Go write the history of this gun for me. I don't care if it's a total fabrication. Just tell me how it came to look like this, and then how it came to rest, with pieces in boxes and bags, in my cousin's garage in central Missouri for about 30 years." His eyes lit up and he salivated...

I expect in a couple more weeks I'll be able to read that history. It'll be a total fabrication spun out of my buddy's fertile imagination, but it'll be a good read!

Patrick

you got to let us read this storey too... charlie

Should make a good read.

Hey, Gentlemen,
I was back on the hammer gun today, cleaning screws and threaded shafts, etc., getting ready to put it all back together and make it look like a shotgun again. I took a real long, hard look at the finish on the barrels, and I can't tell what it was, originally. It is quite pretty, and even in this state, it shows off the figure in the laminated steel barrels. I can tell that much. But I'm really ignorant about these barrel finishes and curious, too. When I first looked at them, I thought they were browned, but that seems to have been a trick of color and light in all that painted on shellac finish. Now it looks much more like deep black/blue, with less color on the figure. So, my question: What would have been the typical barrel finish of a grade 1 Parker with laminated steel barrels, circa 1883? I would really like to know. Thanks again to all.

Patrick

Laminated barrels
 

Laminated barrels 1890, I believe your year will be the same pattern as these. The early English pattern was different.

Thanks, Dave. Those are beautiful barrels. These do look a lot like that, but not as much contrast between the colors. What do you call that? Blacking? Black and white?

Hi, again, Friends. I got the shotgun re-assembled yesterday--most likely for the first time in several decades. Everything works, and it went back together much more solidly than I expected it would. it is temporarily wearing its broken butt plate, but I expect to have a replacement in a few more weeks. Several of you have been particularly helpful with tips, insights and leads to other resources. Special thanks to Wayne, Brian, Darryl and Edgar, but there are many more of you who helped by virtue of your postings in other threads. There is much information to be found in this community, and you are all very generous with your help.

Well, I've got to admit I sort of wish I didn't have to give this back to my cousin. I've grown pretty fond of it. I guess I'll have to start looking around for a project gun for myself. I'm especially impressed with its overall durability. With better barrels, I am now convinced this gun could be a shooter again.

I don't need to tell any of you how graceful and elegant it is overall. It's a big, heavy gun, but its proportions are beautifully slender and graceful.

If I measured correctly, I can give you some details:
Length overall: 48 & 3/4"
Length of barrels: Just shy of 32"
Length of pull: 14 & 3/8"
Drop at heel: 2 & 7/8"

That seems like a lot of drop, but it points perfectly for me. Without adjusting my head, the comb is snug against my cheek and my eye is perfectly aligned with the rib. Then, of course, my left arm gets very tired...

I'll post some "after" pics next. Thanks again to all.
Patrick

In these photos, you can see that I was mistaken about the stock re-finish. It was NOT a professional job, and the wood was very much over-sanded. This is especially true of the fore end. All of these metal components are fully seated in their inlets, but you can clearly see that they stand proud of the remaining wood. I'm sure this won't affect function at all, but it's a real disappointment.

Here, you can see that the wrist area of the stock was over-sanded, too. The trigger plate is fully seated in its inlet, but it stands proud of the remaining wood. However, I was pleased that the lock plates still fit very snugly in their inlets. The striking surfaces of both hammers are peened and dimpled from lots of use. I believe those could be filled, reshaped and re-hardened.

The barrels seem to lock up pretty well, considering all the neglect they suffered. I'm sure the fit could be made better with some polishing. I was very surprised that the joint has no rattle or even wiggle. It just eases into position and the latch goes "thunk".

One last note about the stock: When I really turned my attention to it, I found some runs and drips and big dust particles trapped in the shellac. Like I said, it was a very amateurish attempt. I wet sanded with 400 wet or dry paper soaked in mineral spirits until I had the shellac leveled. I did this with the paper wrapped around a rubber eraser. I was very careful to avoid sanding through. After a couple of days to let the finish re-harden, I rubbed on three very thin coats of linseed oil--about three drops per side at four day intervals. I don't mind the old gouges and stains at all. To me, they are each part of the history of the gun, and I think the stock looks quite nice, all things considered.
And the outside of the right barrel looks good for its age. As long as the left barrel weld is turned to the wall, this will look pretty good in my cousin's gun room.

Looks pretty good for as rough as it was. You better get you another one as quick as possible. You will start to go through withdral symptons. I know people that would use the good barrel and hunt with it just like a single shot. I won't mention names.

done a nice job on this ole gal..you can bet shes proud of what you done for her... charlie