Preston, take any 12ga load in the 8 to 9000psi range and if used in the 10 you'll have even lower pressures. I say 8 to 9 because then it'll be down to 7 to 8000psi. The chambers are a bigger diameter so there's more surface area for the pressure to exert upon so there's less pressure overall. I've used RD,GD, Promo, 700X, Nitro 100 - they all work.

New 10 ga owner
 

Good evening to all
Believe it or not I still have not figured out how to down load Peters spread sheet
Does any one feel like down loading the spread sheet and email it to me it would be greatly appricated thank you in advance
Alton Anker

did you down load the Adobe reader?

if you do- it should open automagically when you double click on it

emailing it won't help if you do not have a PDF viewer like adobe

New 10 GA owner
 

I got it I figured it out wow Peter did a tremendous amount of research this spread sheet alone is worth my membership for a life time thank you to all of you that tried to send me down the right trail I think I am on my way when I figure out how to poast pictures I think I have some nice Parker's " in my world any way"I will poast them
Alton Anker
PS kudos to Peter Lester !!!!!!!!

Alternative powders
 

Since PB, 4756, and 7625 are no longer around, but most of the data in the manuals and spread sheet lists them (basically outdated), has anyone found load data for other powders?

blue dot powder is a good powder for heavy loads in the 10 ga also green dot and red dot are fine for light loads ..herco poder is another good powder for the 10 ga...paul harm also has some differant powders he uses maybe he ll pitch in here...the herco load is on pete lesters loading sheet....charlie

Questions regarding the short ten list and the Hull abbreviations. Rem OS. What dose OS stand for. Rem whtlr. what dose whtlr mean and finally Rem blktr. These hull abbreviations are killing me trying to figure out witch components to use. Looking for a 1 1/2 oz load using Black rem hulls (once fired) from precision reloading and trimmed to 2 7/8". Powders available are Red dot, Blue dot, Clay dot, 700x andsr7625. I have Sp10 wads and Win 209primers and a brick of Fed 209 primers. Any good loads would be appreciated.

i forget the OS - the white and black lettering was on the green hull

i am not sure what if any difference is within those hulls

I have been buying the new green hulls

I think the only difference would be the height of the base wad of the different Remington hulls when constructing a load with the components in the recipe. Other than that I would just follow recipes for Remington and make load height adjustments as you go along.

I have in the past followed Paul's advice loading 12 gauge data in the short 10. Since I had 10 gauge federal hulls and Remington SP10 wads, I just looked for data in 12 gauge with the same components and primers used in the 8-9K PSI range and loaded up some 10 ga. shells I used 800x and they were similar to the recoil to RST's.

I prefer to roll crimp my 10's and then trim off 1/8 of an inch after firing to get an almost fresh starting point. I start off trimming 3 1/2 inch hulls to 3". (The extra 1/8 of an inch should really not raise pressures very much in a 2 7/8" chamber). I load these hulls 6 times until they are down to 2 1/4 inches, adjusting the shot cup filler accordingly, using 1 1/4 oz of #8 shot. Testing of each length of hull showed no negative effects in pattern performance or powder burn cleanliness. Of course, I do not know what effect shortening the hull has on pressures, but I keep these loads down to moderate speeds, have never had any signs of high pressure on the spent shells, and am happy to get 6 loads per hull.

sorry to revive an old thread.
I looked at the spread sheet, and can't seem to find the 19gr of Red Dot load that you guys seem to be talking about.
What hulls, primers and wads are you using for the 1 1/8oz load. i'm assuming the sp10 Wad?
I have a lot of Red Dot and would like to start using the 10ga for skeet
Thanks

Spread sheet is awesome, great bit of info. i'l now be able to use my 10s for everything

thanks for the quick reply, very helpful, i just wonder why 3 cards where chosen over a filler wad?

it depends on what is needed to fill the space for a proper crimp

Perfect, looks like i've gotta pick up some filler wads, i normally use cheerios for my 7/8oz 12ga loads, i think i would need way to many to fill in that kind of space.

:rotf:

i have a couple 12 ga loads i use Cheerios in to fill to

my 10ga loads need a little more if I go light on the shot- either Circle Fly cards/wads, or in one - old Alcan 16ga blue felt wads - although - running short on them finally

Mmmmmmm, the smell of hunny nut cheerios and RedDot in the morning

.......and what you have on hand. In my experience one cheerio under the shot works great, two or more cheerios and the chance of a squib load goes up.

Has anyone tried sticking a 12g. plastic wad into the SP10 prior to loading shot to take up room? Or maybe cutting down the wad instead of using the fiber fillers?

Sounds like a lot of work when I can just put a cheap fiber wad in there

Not sure what it would do to pressure

Fibers let you cut the wad to suit stack height needed. Shorter for 1 1/4 longer for 1 1/8. No doubt stacked cards do the same thing. My Cheerio experience is same as mentioned one OK, more they want to crush on crimping.

19 Red Dot 1 1/8 oz is a great target load. Shot Clays last week with some O/U shooters I don’t know well. Asked if they objected to my Parker Hammer 10, had a O/U in the car if they were concerned. Course owner wanted to see me shoot 4 before he approved. Dusted 4 easy outgoing targets two close two long & got the OK

End of the round they all wanted to try the 10. All said it had less recoil than there 12s. May recruit some new Parker guys.

William

So, iv'e been using 19gr of Promo, Sp10wad, 16ga 1/2" fibre filler wad, with 1 1/8oz #8 with a paper over shot card in a federal hull.
They seem to be working very well for me, went 50 straight the last time i took the 10 out.
problem is getting SP10 wads at a good price in canada.

Charlie: You and I have the 1894 Remington. I have the 2 5/8 chambers. I am still looking for hulls,primers I can use and the proper wad, :I have red dot powder, I checked the web sites they are sold out of 10 ga hulls. Any advise would be appreciated. I ordered some 10 ga RST 2 5/8 " loaded shells.

I have a 1882 Remington 10ga, but believe the chambers are 2 3/4 after carful measurement. Either way, the shells are cut to what ever length you want. JMHO, but any mild primer will work - Rem, Win, Cheddite, or CCI. The 10ga wads from BPI are cheaper than the Remington wads and work fine. The soft 16ga 1/2" cushion wads work best for taking up space. They can be cut to whatever height you want for a good crimp. Patrick, I have a extra 50 Win 10ga once fired hulls you can have for let's say 7/8$ plus shipping. Let me know at bladesmith46@hotmail.com. Title the message " 10ga ".

Patrick that is a most generous offer from Paul. Precision has Remington 10 in stock but you will have to shorten them, they are 42.00 per 100.

Great Ill get on that asap and yes, I agree most generous indeed. I know that I have found the right place here. I am very grateful to paul.

thank you,
Pat

I see the ad its for the 10 ga but I am not familiar with the type of base wad included?
How does that effect the typical wads used SP-10 ? or a light red dot load. I realize Id have to trim this hull to 2 5/8 length.

.250 plastic base wad
thank you
Pat

Pat I load the red dot load in the Remington hull, sp10 wad 1/2 in. hard waxed filler and it crimps well. A great way to trim them is a dowel with an exacto blade set at a slight angle. The dowel bottoms out in the hull and you cut a slot at an angle to hold the blade at the length you want 2 5/8 or 2 7/8. Paul Harm shortens his when the crimps get ragged and gets a few more out of them. Thanks for the idea Paul.

19 grs of Red Dot and 1 1/8 oz of shot is a nice mild target load but what if you want a real 10 gauge load? like 1 1/2 or 1 5/8 oz of shot for ducks and geese at longer ranges -- anyone have a smokeless load they like? I'm currently loading brass hulls with black powder and getting tired of the cleaning process.

Woodcock Survey:

I would like to make a tool like you describe. That would do the trick. Is it possible to send a picture? How does the blade remain in the tool and how is it turned....Im trying to picture how it cuts..to the proper length..
thank you
pat

I will try to post a photo later , but I am challenged in that area. Start with a 3/4 in. dowel , drill 3-4 small holes at about a 15 degree angle and drive an exacto blade into it at approx 2-1/2 in. up from the base adjust with spacers and thumb tacks in butt if needed. There is a thread here some where explaining it. My first one was made by Scott Kitteredge and I have made them for 20 and 410. I will look for that thread and maybe Scott or Pete Lester will have some information.

Pat go to youtube and ask for loading the short 10, I believe it is by Pete Lester. On the bench you will see the tool I describe. Hope this helps.

The blade is driven into the dowel and held by friction,as you insert the tool turn it as it reaches the mouth of the shell and as it begins to cut push down and continue to turn. It is so simple and easy it defies description. The blade is narrow and at angled to a point it is a number 11. 3 or 4 small holes drilled into dowel and the blade is driven in with a hammer, gently to a depth about half way through the dowel.

Making Cutting Tool Questions
 

Hmmmm a few questions What are the small holes supposed to do.....?Does it start a location on the dowel where the blade is supposed to go?. I guess Im not clear on how you gently drive the blade in with a hammer and not damage the blade....you see? is it a #11 exacto blade?

Yes it is a #11 Exacto blade I used. The holes are a starter for the blade. Please go to the first post on this thread and watch the video Pete Lester made and you will see him use and explain it. I was mistaken in saying 3/4 dowel , it is 5/8. Pete will also explain how to make an adjuster for different makes of hulls.

Get a dowel that fits snug and I put a single edge razor blade in at about a 15 degree angle. The blade needs to be tapped in with a hammer. First a thin knife blade is tapped in for a little bit to get the razor started. I also drill a hole in the end and install a machine screw, say a 8-32. This can be screwed in or out to fine tune the cut. If your shell is 3.5 and you want 2 5/8, put the dowel in the shell, with a pencil make a mark on the dowel, pull it out and subtract 7/8" and make another mark. This is where the blade sits about 15 degrees from perpendicular. I put the shell in my left hand and the dowel, with my thumb on the razor, in my right hand. I've found by slightly bending the top part of the razor [ the safe side ] I can make the razor feed in for a slow cut or a fast one. You may ruin a shell or two getting the feel for everything. A cheap table model wood cutting band saw from harbor Freight would work good, be quicker, and you could forget about playing around with dowels and blades.
Ron, I never had any luck with nitro powders in the Magtechs. I believe it's because of the lack of a crimp. My Accurate gunpowder handbook has a article about the importance of a good crimp and how it effects pressures. Before I sold 300 Magtechs I tried 28grs of PB - my normal load was around 18 to 20grs. I was still getting bloopers. I believe Charlie has had some success with them. God luck to all. Paul

Ron, I've never had any luck with nitro powders in the Magtechs. My Accurate powder reloading booklet has an article about the importance of crimps and how they effect pressure. There isn't much resistance by gluing OS cards in compared to a fold or roll crimp. I sold 300 Magtechs after trying to get good loads with smokeless. I believe Charlie has had some success with them. Let us know if you find a way to use them with nitro powders.

Thanks for the help, Paul. What year/issue is you accurate arms reloading booklet? I'd like to read the article. Your explanation regarding crimp pressure makes sense and might explain my results: I loaded and fired 10 new brass hulls (ordered 50 from Track of the Wolf -- "The head is engraved Parker Brothers Meriden, Conn. - 10 gauge A markings for a historic appearance.") with 34 grains of Longshot, and 1 5/8 oz #7 1/2 chill. This load is listed on the Short Ten Reloading Spreadsheet showing only 5700 psi. Of the 10 that I shot 3 cracked.

I don't believe the fault is the hull as I have used these same brass hulls for repeated reloadings and firings of pretty heavy loads of black powder and have never cracked a hull.

The shots that I fired all felt and sounded normal -- and actually seemed mild compared to the black powder loads. You would think that the fact that "there isn't much resistance by gluing OS cards in compared to a fold or roll crimp" that the pressure would be even lower than 5700 psi. So it's a mystery to me why the hulls cracked -- perhaps without sufficient resistance the pressure curve moved higher up the case? Regardless of the cause I will not be wasting any more hulls at $7.50 per using them with that load again. It would be interesting to know if anyone else has had a similar experience.

At this point I think I will save the brass hulls for vintage shoots and black powder loads (which are a lot of fun to shoot) and buy a few boxes of RSTs for hunting.

Maybe at some point I'll experiment with trying to increase the resistance of the over shot wad by using a thicker card more solidly glued in. But's hard to believe a crimped plastic hull offers much resistance in comparison to the force required to push the entire payload from a dead stop to 1100 fps... Maybe the article you mentioned has an explanation?

Thanks again -- I'll share anything else I learn,

Ron

Man, that's a shame, those cost a little bit. Those are made by Rockey Mountain and are turned from a solid piece of brass, so they're thicker than the Magtecks. They have a smaller internal volume, so that may contribute to you being able to use smokeless powders. Maybe the end was too small a diameter and allowed the shell to expand too much and crack. That would just be my guess. I found a thicker OS card gave me a hole in the pattern. Other guys had more luck. That was a 2005 Accurate reloaders guide. Here's a brief synopsis of the article:
The fundamental difference between a shotshell cartridge and a center fire rifle cartridge is that the efficiency of the shotshell is 100% dependent on the round itself. All the "resistive forces" must be generated within the confines of the round itself, no assistance is provided by the gun [the bullet meeting the rifling ]. The maximum peak pressure is reached long before the base of the shot/wad assembly has left the case. This means the efficiency re ignition and subsequent increase in pressure, is totally controlled by the integral configuration and assembly of the round itself. These constitute the main inertial mass [ shot mass ], the initial internal volume [ wad design ], the collapsing of the wad, plus the displacing of the internal assembly and the unfolding of the crimp. Crimping is certainly is one of the most importantly aspects of the shotshell reloading process. The influence of the crimp on ballistics is often ignored and assumed to be of lesser importance that primers and wad make/design. The fact is that the effect of the crimp-strength can totally overshadow the influence of other components and parameters. this is controlled by the following:

crimp depth

condition of the case

wad

wad tension

It is always wise to use a strong a crimp as possible.
Back to me - usually a roll crimp has lower pressures and I would think a card just glued in wouldn't have hardly any resistive forces so pressures would be even lower - too low. Black powder is a different animal so we can do things with it that doesn't work so well with nitro powders. The military has had all brass shells but they're roll crimped. I don't think they are worried about reloading them.

Thank you for taking the time to retype all that info -- I appreciate it.

Regarding your theory about the end being too small. I don't think so because, 1) the black powder loads didn't crack the hull & 2) the overshot wad in both cases fit perfectly. But wow that I think about it, I used a different lot of brass hulls for the smokeless loads. Maybe they are harder than the first ones -- I could try annealing them. It would be worth testing because the load otherwise worked great. I'll keep you posted.