Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums - The restoration question

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- - The restoration question (https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9025)

Take advice from someone who has "restored" things in the past: I have restored 6 cars to concours condition, one of which scored the highest ever for the type of car. While the restorations no doubt made the cars worth more money, I never made money. Always cost more than you could get for it. You generally don't restore something because you'll make money. You do it because you like projects, want to perserve history, like the satisfaction, want to drive yourself crazy, etc. and of course, have money burning a hole in your pocket.

Greg, being a part of the collector car world, I know there is a lot of interest in "survivors" but how they defined survivor is really a term of art. A "survivor" to them is what we would call a high condition gun, ie all original with 70%+ condition. Like Parkers, those cars are very rare. In the car hobby, a survivor is not an old worn out car found in a barn. That is a restoration project that no one thinks twice about.

Brian, I agree with you about maintenance which guns need. My point that one who wants to partially "restore" a gun adds little to it.

The gun world is unlike the car world, and thus may not be a good comparision but it was all I could think of. Some say never restore, but I see no warm restroing some guns. I wouldn't personally bother if the gun didn't have its original stock and barrels as at that point there is nothing to "restore".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Masciarella (Post 90279)

I have read many threads on the virtues of restoration and have some thoughts as a relatively new Parker gun collector. Over the years, it seem I've collected every at one time or another, ie furniture, cars, etc. (I'm not a high end person so I collected what I could afford). Problem was I ended up with furniture I wouldn't sit on and cars I didn't drive because I worried something would happen to them. So I now collect Parkers because I can go shoot them! When I do, it doesn't matter whether they are restored.

When it comes to unrestored items such as cars or furniture, the unrestored "survivors" are with a lot of money because there are so few. Generally, partial restorations do nothing to add to their value with the opposite effect more likely. I think a Parker survivor is best left alone regardless of who may have owned it in the past. But what is a "survivor"? Most Parkers are unrestored so they are not as rare in this condition compared to other collectibles.

If a Parker has no color, worn checkering, 50% barrels, etc., why not restore it-if that's what hits your hot bottom? Not everything that exists is a survivor. A collectible "survivor" might be defined as a Parker that has a certain level of originality and condition. I make no attempt to define what that might be. But anything below that, may warrant restoration to bring back it's former glory provided the restoration brings it back to it's original factory condition.

It seems to me that, while recognizing it can only be "new" once, a worn out Parker remains a worn out Parker, and restoring it isn't so bad (in most circumstances) so long as you can still go shoot it! I'm trying to shoot mine now but the duck hunting is so slow down here I took my iPad to the blind to give me something to do and now you fellas are stuck with this thread!

It's a personal decision only the individual can answer. The gun in these pictures is an 1894 Remington CEO grade that was my Grandfather's, purchased for him, I believe, as a 50th birthday gift in 1902. When my dad gave it to me it was very, very rough and he told me he wished it could be "fixed up" some time. I had Doug Turnbull do a complete restoration and do not regret it at all. Some would call it an unwise investment, or say my family's dings and other abuses added character, etc., but I know my dad would be pleased. He is no longer with us and unfortunately did not get to see it completed. It was and is a family gun and I carried out my family's wishes. When I use it, I do so with pride. -plc-

David

I think it was a great investment which will now last for many more generations. What a great gun. Thanks for sharing it.

Ray

Its an oft repeated rule of thumb, as reflected in the pages of the Blue Book, that even a properly restored vintage double is discounted about 50% as compared to an original. But I think this statement has been misinterpreted by many. The reference to the reduction in value, it seems to me, is to a comparable 100% original Parker. Some seem to think that a 10% Parker with smooth checkering, brown oxidized barrels, and a silver frame is worth more than it would be if fully restored. I do not think that to be the case in the reality of the market, nor is that the message that the Blue Book (and others) intends to convey. The value comparison is apples to apples, that being an original retaining 100% of its surface finishes as opposed to a restoration showing 100%. I have yet to see an example of an original in 10% condition being worth twice as much as the same gun in 100% restored condition if done properly by someone like Turnbull or Bacheldor. That being said, it also seems to be true that one can seldom recover the cost of the restoration on resale if you've paid someone else to do the work. I'm not saying that it isn't possible in every case, but I've yet to see it happen myself, especially where lower grade guns are concerned. So the lesson there, on lower grade guns, would be to restore a Parker in low condition with little collector value as is, and don't do it for the expectation of profit on a resale, as you will likely be disappointed.

Gentlemen, This thread is close to my heart. There are purist among us, as should be, As for me I feel that gun collecting consist of several types of individuals, Shooters, who by a gun to use, regardless of grade, and as previously mentioned, a touch up here and there to keep the gun functioning correctly. after all they were made to be used! Second we have an individual that wants a gun as original as possible, and buys such a piece based on that originality, and will not buy a gun that has been shall we say messed with. Third we have people that want their favorite gun to look good and function as it should with out straying from it's original specifications, hence the occasional rechecking, barrel blue etc. Fourth a person who focuses on certain grades, gauges, for a collection, and if and when found, they are in need of attention, appropriate measures are taken to bring them back to originality. I am sure we could get into even more subgroups but pretty much I think we all fall into one of these four groups. As for me personally, when I find a one of a kind, or something very unusual and the gun is as it left the factory" sometimes this is hard to verify" I will have the gun brought back to as close to original as can be! Case in point,my 20 gauge lifter! The first 20gauge and to date the only A grade 20 ga hammer gun made, The gun as seen in the Parker Pages summer 2010 pg 29-30 , was sent to Bachelder to freshen up, He did a great job as usual and I am extremely proud to be it's owner, I guess others like it too,since it won the "Peoples Choice Award" at the annual meeting this fall. Whichever category of collecting, shooting we fall into. We are proud owners of I think the best side by side made in this country! Gary

Larry
I agree completely!! I have some age on me and like things, Parkers, RR watches, cars, etc that have stood the test of time and even though show the age and wear and tear still function. Some of the Parkers really need restoration to restore functionality and their former beauty. May we chose wisely.
Merry Christmas
David

Gary

Post some photos!!!!!!!!

Ray

Ray, Click on hammer guns go to page 7. 3 post with photo's Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Masciarella (Post 90279)

It seems to me that, while recognizing it can only be "new" once,

I prefer to think It can be 'original' only once, restored as many times as you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Masciarella (Post 90279)

I took my iPad to the blind to give me something to do

Seriously? An iPad in the blind? What's next ?

Good thoughts, all. I can't disagree with any of the posters because it all depends on what our individual feelings are. Larry the Gun Guy brings up a great point with how was the gun to begin with. If it is a clunker but there are many parts around to restore it to an attractive shooter is that not better than leaving it as a clunker. We all have different preferences so luckily there are probably enough Parkers and other fine guns out there for all of us. Some would be ecstatic over a great G or V grade in 80% condition while others who can afford it only gravitate toward the A or B grades. Some can only afford a Trojan grade. More power to us all in whatever makes us happy.