"Welder's eyes" a curse of the trade
 

I'm one of the "lucky ones' after many years in the trade- boiler, pressure vessel, pipeline- SMAW, TIG and MIG- all positions, even the "Arkansas Bell hole" I still have 20-15 distance vision in my right eye, and 20-20 distance in the left- with perfect depth perception. I do use a 1x magnifier in my reading and shop safety glasses for fine print- saves on renting an 'arm stretcher'--

I never called you an A-hole (or said you could run the Arkansas Bellhole with 5P or HYP (Hippie rod) either-- I'm just calling them how i see them. The wood looks like it came from a Sunkist crate- and there are rough burrs or sanding marks by the forearm iron and around the locks. Cosmoline- OK, familiar with that- we used left over coffee from the Mess Hall urins to purge the bores of the M-1 Garands and the 1903 Springfields in the base Armory. But did Hunter Arms-Marlin use that military issue for civilian weapons? I also sold a near Mint 12 Elsie FW Ideal to a brother Parker Assn. member in PA about a year ago- it also had the original (1931 by Houchins' book) yellow tag matched to the gun's sn with all the salient details- didn't add one lick to the selling price or the value of the gun I sold. You can buy all the LC Smith hang tags from the Galazan boys, and fill them in to match any gun you wish to sell.

Case colors- hard to say. Hopefully, Ed "the torch" didn't fire up his old victor combo set with the Rosebud tip in place and go over this gun- and I still say, from your fotos anyway, the left firing pin looks to be about .0015" larger in dia. at the protruding tip than that for the right barrel- but that might be my "old welder's eyes" fooling me-

Pansies, petunias, burlap bags- try setting a gun you have for sale against a gunner's motif- a LOM case, or perhaps with a few duck decoys for a background.

The Froggies have a term Trompe l'oie (sic) which means- to fool the eye- and it also lead into the artists' trick of using the "rule of thirds" to draw the vision of the beholders to the key facets of the item- might be worth a "shot":whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle :

I'm sure you have many opinions but perhaps analyzing a nearly new very late Smith (1948 I think) is not your strong suit.
I will keep my thoughts about your's and other's forum etiquette to myself. I usually do the research and compare similar examples of any given gun (especially taking into consideration the time frame of thier production) before voicing an opinion on a collector's forum.
The pin diameter is hard to tell from the photos due to the picture's angle and slight shadow. But I must say that the degree to which you can measure from a two dimensional photo taken on a slight angle is truly remarkable. .0000

I really don't know why this gun would be listed as a parker fox. The parkers and the foxes I've handled never had wood to metal fit like that. I guess that is a good enough reason not to own a smith.

Sorry Tom about using the adjective that I did. However, the practice of sticking unrelated brand names in an auction title for the purpose of generating more search hits just plain irritates me.
Or maybe it is being done with this gun for a perfectly legit reason.

Another good example of this that I see often is "Baker Shotgun: NOT Lefever, Parker, Fox." Why tell a buyer what something isn't. Just tell them what it IS and if they are looking for it, then they might buy.

I personally don't mind the choice of outdoor setting.

Try a pre-1913 Smith- might change your mind
 

Even the late Mike McIntosh detailed that in his 1989 book- Best Guns- I own 4 12 bore Smiths- three graded ones made from 1907-1911 and a Specialty made in 1924-- The Smith I sold to a Brother PGCA member in PA was a FW Ideal 12- DT made in Feb 1945, or at least according to the yellow hang tag that went with it- It had the post 1939 style raised solid rib-a single sight plane if you will. It was mechanically perfect- the Mint Condition gun we all would like to buy-did have a Pachmayr red ventilated pad installed, by a perfect job- so that would be like a "Biker Bar Tattoo" on Sophia Loren- not quite right, but not a huge drawback either-

But you could tell that the lower graded Smiths- especially after the Marlin take-over, did NOT have the fine fit up of the pre-War higher graded Smith guns-You can see the same thing in the late 1960's (1960-1963) Winchester M70's and M12's (sadly)- when the shiny-seat-of-the pants clerks and bean counters take over, production quality and oftentimes, skilled worked morale suffers-:bigbye:

I agree with you-
 

[quote=Brian Dudley;52529]Sorry Tom about using the adjective that I did. However, the practice of sticking unrelated brand names in an auction title for the purpose of generating more search hits just plain irritates me.
Or maybe it is being done with this gun for a perfectly legit reason.

Another good example of this that I see often is "Baker Shotgun: NOT Lefever, Parker, Fox." Why tell a buyer what something isn't. Just tell them what it IS and if they are looking for it, then they might -- Let's remember that the gentleman offering this "rare" Smith is selling it (or trying too) NOT on our PGCA Forum (where, were he an annual or LIFE member, he could- for free)but on one of the "Free For All" forums auction website thingys- I call it "Gun Busters" or "Gunz and Roses' in this case (close cousin to the pansies I should guess) The rules of conduct- both written and unwritten (Thou Shalt NOT Speal Evil Of ANY brother PGCA Member) et al- most certainly DO NOT apply here-

Half the clowns selling firearms there miss-describe them, ejectors on a Trojan grade-- rare Doll's Head rib on a Trojan-- I will admit some of them do have good fotos- many of the sellers are Pawn Shops (Hey Chumlee- wake up!!) or other outlets of low repute- many do NOT offer a return for refund- you buy it as is- many do not honor a C&R, or recognize that the BATF rules allow you to ship without the FFL channel if the firearm was made prior to 1896- etc-etc--:bigbye:

Francis, The rib extension on a Trojan grade gun is not rare. I was standard on guns untill about 1920 or so.

100% right David- thanks
 

But some "dealers' on the auction sites will describe a Trojan as having the "rare" top rib or small doll's head extension to "trick" the uninformed potential buyer into thinking he/she(?) was about to buy a "rare or special" version of Parker's best selling model (after 1915 of course)-

I have seen the same "hype" used to hawk overpriced AH Fox Sterlingworth's made with the Parker style hinge pin-- When you get a chance, please check you PM here- thanks!!:bigbye::bigbye:

Could be an "optical illusion"
 

- BUT- regarding the 1945 FW 12 Ideal I sold- I always test with A-zoom snap caps, and use the old Armorer's trick of covering the "primer" with a piece of masking tape- The gun passed of course, but I noted that the indentation from the right barrel firing pin was somewhat larger in apparent diameter than that produced by the left firing pin- so I removed (carefully) the lock plates and took out the firing pins- and "miked" them for all dims- sure enough- the tip was 0.00125" longer and the OD 0.00115 larger than its "twin" for the LH barrel side-

No big deal, but, as many other PGCA Members (and here I note you are a Forum member, not an annual member- I hope you will spend the $40 to 'up-grade" as the quarterly magazine is well worth that amount alone- and then you can offer double guns for sale to the memberhsip here at no cost- something I do NOT believe the LCSCA yet allows)--

You might also care to note that I DID NOT comment on the gent's asking price- I never do that- It is a free country and he can ask whatever amount he cares to, and if he sells it for his asking price with box and tags and paperwork, more power to him indeed. I was a bit "taken aback" about the rumored $11K that the MINT 12 Trojan, formerly the property of the now late Ed Muderlak, sold for. Granted, Ed was an Icon to the PGCA and his books and writing abilities are/were surpassed by few (maybe Gough Thomas or Geoffrey Boothroyd) but I digress-Ed was not the deceased: Czar of Russia, or a Roosevelt who had his image graven on Mt. Rushmore- that kind of money for a economy graded Parker- blows my mind- I can only wonder what it might have fetched had it been a 20 bore--:whistle::whistle:

I own a 1946 LC Smith field Grade in fairly good condition. I have to remember that in the 1946 those shotguns were expensive Marlin shotguns and not cheep LC Smiths. The fit and finish does not appear to be the same as on the LC Smith's earlier guns. It would appear from my example that the colors are reasonable. While the shotgun in question is nice to look at, it has a fatal flaw as far as I am concerned. As it is new it would be a shame to shoot it, and I want to be able to shoot my firearms.
As for the backdrop, Why not!