Lo Dave: The Winchester 101: During the VN War I spent some time at MCAS Iwakuni, Japan. We had a trap/skeet club. The squadrons encouraged the pilots to shoot. So over I went.

Some of these guys shot constantly. Old Navy Chiefs, some senior Marines. A few pilots. We bought our guns on base. All Japanese made. We had three kinds available. The Winchester 101, the SKB O/U (can't recall the designation, but they were nicely engraved guns) and the Miroku. I bought a Diamond Grade Miroku because it looked like a Superposed, a gun I had always yearned for and could not afford.

The most popular gun was the SKB and the least the 101. They popped their ribs. Now these guys shot a lot! Hundreds and hundreds of rounds a week. It was cheap. Everything was cheap. We had nothing else to do in our spare time. If we had any. I didn't get to shoot all that much, but my gun held up fine and I still own it. It's a 12. My wife loves it.

Steve

Hi Steve.

I would like a mod 12 winchester pump but over there in the UK it is very hard to get a
good one or any at all ?. Did not know the ribs came of the 101 not good you just do not
get that on a PARKER OH' NO .
All the best Dave.

I have not shot very many 101's. Just borrowed a guys gun to shoot a round of skeet or two.

Winchester Model 12's which they stopped in general production in 1963 are nice pumps. Machined steel receivers. Well made and takedown easily. They point extremely well, least for me. I just walked into a gun store and bought two. One a solid rib 16, well worn and another a like new 12 modified. The 16 cost under $250 and the 12 just at $317. Usually you'll see these in the $500 to $700 range, but I have a secret source. I guess our Model 12's didn't make it across the pond.

Do you see many Parker's over there? How well do they stack up with your fine doubles? Boss? Army and Navy? Have you ever hefted a Lefever? They are about as close to the light, pencil thin English guns. IMHO.

Only one.
 

Hi Steve.:)
No you do not see to many over there but did get one a vhe 12 bore made in
1937 Remington 1/2 size frame made for a Mr Tasey-28inch-full-full.
I do have one English gun a Steven Grant hammer under lever made in 1868
and no i have not hefted a Lefever but i think i would like to.:cool:

I did see a mod 12 over here but it was crap:cuss:

All the best Dave.:bigbye:

Amazing colors! Re-done? I especially like the flag.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...hotguns016.jpg

I have a few English guns, but only one shotgun. Here she is. An early muzzle loader. Hardy Bros of fishing reel fame, I think. This gun is a wonderful shooter. Straight stock. I'm a little confused about this gun. Hardy Bros didn't go into business until something like 1878. By that time the English were well into the cartridge era. They made pinfire guns in the 1850's as I recall. They also converted pinfire into centerfire. I suspect that they didn't make muzzle loaders in the 1880's. I doubt that we did that late too for that matter.

Oh, I've got another English gun! Forgot all about it.

The original Hardy Brothers were in fact gunsmiths, that firm, according to the offical history, was formed in 1873, when William (set up trade in 1872) was joined by John James, a little late for a muzleloader but certainly not impossible, as breech loaders were still very new fangled at that point.

They soon expanded into tackle (rods) and eventually the fishing reel company began in the 1890's.

very nice shotgun in any case, many of those old pieces have very shootable dimensions. Some fit better :eek: than the old Parkers

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...kFowler002.jpg

Here is my other English shotgun. A fowler of course. Looks like a 10 gauge. It is a "Tirebuck" which was a father/son firm that worked in London between 1803 and 1806. This may be the only Tirebuck extant. It probably is. I have never shot this gun, but she sparks up a store. Has an advanced flintlock. Note the water proof pan and wheel on the spur on the frizzen. The barrel is eavenly pitted on the outside, but mirror smooth in the bore. I don't think I'll shoot it however. A gunsmith looked at it and said that there was a lot of steel in there, but still the gun is 200 years old. Still neat however. It had an ebony ram rod that had been broken in two, so I suspect it was a wall hanger in some pub somewhere.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...kFowler007.jpg

Here's another picture of the old Tirebuck fowler. Not too clear I'm afraid. It is very thick at the wrist. It is fun to consider what was going on when this gun was made. Nelson was still alive when the Tirebuck company opened it's doors and was gone when it closed. It is interesting to consider what London looked like in those days. Viewing the British ships of the line as they sailed on that calm and rolling sea off Cadiz must have been somethiing to see! Bands were playing! Men were cheering! Nelson's secretary, Lt Scott was standing next to Nelson. As Nelson was in the process of "crossing the T" and could not bring his guns to bare, a Spanish/French cannon ball raked the Victory and removed Scott's head. He fell near Nelson. Nelson looked over and said, "Who is that?" Someone said, "It's Scott, Sir?" To which Nelson replied. That's Scott? Poor Fellow!" Wooden ships, iron men! One of them may have ordered my Tirebuck fowler.

Yeah, who rehardened the Parker? It's a very rare gun over here but you Brits probably don't give a darn. It's still a great gun.

That is interesting. This Hardy Bros muzzle loading shotgun is light and comes to shoulder wonderfully. I've haven't shot her for years, but when I was a kid i shot her all of the time. A handfull of powder, a wad of newspaper, a palm full of shot, and more newspaper. Killed a lot of rabbits with it.

Yeah, pretty basic, but it worked.

When I fiddle with that old english muzzle loader I can understand the attraction of fine English shotguns. Except for my Lefever, my American doubles feel chunkier and heavier.