Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums - Winchester 1912 Black Diamond Trap

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- - Winchester 1912 Black Diamond Trap (https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41871)

That’s awesome! I’ve got a later 1897 they are pretty nice like the 12’s. Dove is what I’m thinking of shooting on occasion with this one since I don’t shoot trap and maybe turkey on occasion. Think be too long for me to comfortable shoot sporting clays. Have been tempted to flip it towards another parker though…but afraid I’ll regret it lol

He messaged me back and it's the Lillian Ralls gun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Hause (Post 410542)

Keith: Plinky switched to a Model 12 at some point. She and Ad continued to shoot exhibitions until her death in Jan, 1945

https://photos.smugmug.com/Shooters/...ein%204-XL.jpg

“Famous Shooter Breaks 961 Out of 1000 in Day Before a Large Crowd”
San Antonio, Tex., July 27, 1908.
A large crowd saw Mrs. Adolph Topperwein shoot at 1000 targets in an endurance test Schwermeyer’s Park on July 19. The feat of shooting at such a number of targets in a few hours is no child’s play, and the fact that it has only been accomplished a few times in the history of trap shooting, by men who were seasoned shooters, demonstrates the magnitude of such a performance, and only those who study the shooting game closely realize what a tremendous task it is to shoot 1000 shots with a shotgun loaded with the regular trap load. Not only is Mrs. Topperwein’s score remarkable from an endurance point, but the accuracy she displayed in shooting this number shots is really wonderful, as she consumed but four hours and 35 minutes in firing the total score.
Mrs. Topperwein used but one gun, a Winchester (1897) trap gun weighing seven and one-half pounds, and a load of three and one-eighths drams of Dead Shot Smokeless powder in a Winchester Leader case.
The targets were thrown in the regulation manner, fully 50 yards, and at unknown angles. The shooting was done in strings of 25, shooting 100, with a few moments’ rest. She broke 96 out of her first 100 in exactly 20 minutes, and scored 98 in her last 100 in 16 minutes. She made several long runs, the best between the fifth and sixth hundred, when she scored 111 without a miss. The weather was very hot, and toward the end of the score very windy. Mrs. Topperwein suffered no inconvenience or ill-effects, with the exception of having her left hand blistered from a hot gun barrel.

1941 with a Model 12

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I shot Bits & Pieces for years on Tuesday Nights at Red Mountain Gun Club and the most the consistent winner every week was a gentleman from Detroit who shot a Black Diamond. He's ride the bird until it was almost out of bound and crush it with us having no chance at a piece. He's almost 90 now and has multiple Model 12s and I love to hear his stories on duck hunting on the Great Lakes.

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Originally Posted by George Davis (Post 410672)

I bet it’s awesome listening to him. I would love to travel around and talk to all these seasoned collectors and view their unique pieces of functional art/history as well as hear their collecting stories and hunting/shooting stories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Bishop (Post 410674)

I had a Black Diamond model 12 that was almost exactly like yours with the straight stock and small forend. It was made in 1922 with the 2 pin milled vent rib. Even though the gun was in 98% condition the pad had flattened through the years and I had to replace it like your gun. I did find a real Winchester pad and didn't use a repo. I have had several high grade model 12's(Pigeons-traps-skeets) but this had the best figured wood of the bunch(4x by winchester wood grading standards) Also: In the number 5 picture that you show-my gun had what I called a diamond and not a star. I'm not sure but I always heard that you have a real black diamond gun if the diamond(star) mark is present. Anyway-nice gun and most people don't realize how hard it is to find a black diamond model 12 especially with condition. I also had a black diamond model 97 trap.

I'm not sure Winchester collectors have really determined what the mark in the front of the take down part signifies. Some have the mark, some don't.

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I'm not sure but I always heard that you have a real black diamond gun if the diamond(star) mark is present.

99.9% sure that is an urban myth.

The "black diamond" in the stock is just a feature of the Trap Grade and the Pigeon Grade guns, both Model 1912 and 1897. Through at least 1926 Winchester paper the Trap and Pigeon grades are still with the "black diamonds." The next Winchester paper I have is July 1931 and for the Model 12 the Tournament Grade had been replaced with the Standard Trap Grade and the Trap Grade had been replaced with the Special Trap Grade which is still pictured with the "black diamond." The Model 97 was only offered in the Standard Grade as well as the Guard & Riot and the Trench Gun.

By the November 1932 Winchester catalog, after the Olins took over Winchester, The Model 12 was still shown in the Standard Trap Grade (no "black diamond") and the Special Trap Grade with the "black diamond." For the Model 97 a Standard Trap Grade (no "black diamond") was back in the listings. The offerings remained the same through 1938. These guns were offered in all gauges.

Things change for 1939. Both the Standard Trap Grade and Special Trap Grade are gone, and they are replaced with the Model 12 Trap Gun shown with no "black diamond" and in 12-gauge only. The Pigeon Grade is still offered in all gauges and shown with the "black diamond." In the 1941 Winchester catalog there are two Model 12 Pigeon Grades shown, one with the "Black diamond" and one without.

Win 12 Black Diamond Trap

Model 1912 Black Diamond Trap - circa 1919. 30 inch Full. Pistol Grip somewhat "open". Heavy round-nosed comb. Repro pad is temporary until an original is obtained.