Russ you caught my attention about the Polywads spreader. I would like to know what loads were you shooting? I am just curious which ones you found to be a better choice. I am still experimenting with loads with my 12 Ga. VH. This past pheasant season I was using RST, #6 shot. They proved effective, sometimes over effective. I am just looking for a better pattern. I missed a few birds that I swear I should not have missed and I made hamburg out of 2 of them on other hunts. Thanks

Hello William ,In my 16 Trojan , The chokes were so tight ,For Grouse ,I would shoot ,Polywad Spreaders ,16 Ga. 2 1/2 " ,2 3/4 Dram eq./ # 8 Shot in the right Barrel and # 6 Shot in the left ! And for Pheasant ,I would use the Polywad Spreaders in # 6 Shot ,in both barrels . I Generally carry my PH 20 Ga. with 28" Twist barrels these days and I use RST Vintagers # 7 1/2 or # 8 shot in my Right barrel and RST Vintagers # 6 in my Left ,the Ph Is more open choked than the Trojan 16 Bore ! Also ,My old Brit " Chip " is nine years and pretty solid ,I would say 95 percent of my birds are shot ,pointed and between 18 to 25 yards when I get my first chance at them ,so I am not as worried about initial penetration as much as a nice full pattern ,of course if things don't go as planned ,then I believe the heavier shot down range is the better choice for better penetration ,hence the reason for two different size bb's in each barrel ,with the exception of Big old Roosters ,I like to have both , heavier BB's and penetration ,nothing like quick effective kills ! Never cared much for having cripples lost in the field !

RST has spreaders in 12 and 20 gauge, and I think they work a little nicer then the Polywads. Just my two cents. Eric

Russ,
Just to note towards the end of the season I was putting 7 1/2 shot in the right barrel and 6 shot in the other. Thanks for all the info. I am going to give these polywads a try. Sounds like your Brit. is a good dog. My springer just had his second season and proving to be a good hunter. There is nothing better than hunting with a good gun and a good dog. Thanks my friend!

William ,You are quite welcome , I have never used the spreaders Eric is speaking of ,but I have to say the Polywad Ammo works great ,I know you will be pleased and ,the RST,Vintagers is also amazing ,and when I need more shells ,I will also try their spreader loads ! This is one of the many things about this Forum that is really nice ,we all have a common bond and the info. is wonderful ! As far as my old Dog Chip ,he is a good hunting Buddy nd his Mother was phenomenal ! I swear ,Old Maggie could find Pheasants in the Mall Parking Lot ! This is a couple of pics. of Chip ,doing his thing ,training sessions at home ! He runs at a pleasant gait ,his points are solid ,he listens to commands 99 Percent ,he will relocate on running Birds ,Kennels on command and won't leave his crate without a release command ,but he will only fetch when he is hunting with another dog ???? He will always go to the downed bird and chase down a cripple ,but without a little competition ,he isn't much interested in fetching !

I have had good luck with Polywad spreaders in 12 ga. and 16ga. I have used the vintager
Doublewides for doves in 20 ga. I like those shells also.
Jeff

Poly-Wad Spreaders were the first that I used before I started rolling my own spreaders. I have also used RST's spreaders they are wonderful also.

God I love those Brit's Russ.....:bowdown:

Russ I agree with you on the forum. I have found a wealth of information from members. Never to old to listen and learn. My springer has his own mind when it comes to retrieving birds. He has no trouble finding them, flushing them and locating them after the shot but, when it comes to the retrieve he will bring them when he feels like it. He just seems more interested in putting up another bird. Each dog really has there own personality. I can always tell when he is on a hen or a rooster by his movements. He will point a rooster before the flush. The more you work with a dog the more of a trusting bond that you build with them. I swear sometimes when the dog works real hard to put a bird up and If I miss he comes around and gives me a look like what the hell happen? A couple of times I have looked at him and said, Hey, I'm sorry! LOL!!!!!!!

William ,I am sure there are fellas reading this saying to themselves ,"Come on Guys any Dog can be trained to Fetch " and I know they are right . I always train my own dogs and there are so many Pros and Cons in training ,any time you are working with a dog and a bird you can't push too hard and even though I understand Force Training and would be more than willing to put the time in on it ,it really just isn't important enough to me "personally " to chance ruining a Good Dog ,which I will own and care for generally for 13 to 15 years !Chips sister " Annie " had a bad training session at about 9 months old with a young Rooster and a check cord ,man ,she was really coming into her own and on this day ,she accidently got caught up with the check cord " Front legs and around her neck " about the same time she caught up with the young Rooster ,she always must have thought that Bird did something real bad to her ,and she has blinked birds ever since ! I know when she has a " Bird Contact " but no one else would ,she lowers her posture and circles around the bird ,a pathetic sight ,but these things happen ,and this is what concerns me about force breaking a dog .as I say the fetching just isn't that important to me ,although I do enjoy it on the days Chip decides he enjoys it also !

The Retrieve
 

Russ, like you I also train my own dogs. I was brought up with Springers. My grandfather and uncles always used them. I love their personality and they are a great family dog as well. I do not believe force training is the way to go. I usally start mine out in the yard with a dummy and some bird scent. I only work a few minutes at a time and work my way up. I try to make it as fun as possible and with a reward, even if it is a treat or just a pat on the head. To me if the dog "listens", can find and put up birds that is the most important. Many times he has put up birds in a area just after a few hunters and dogs went through ahead of us. "Benny" will retrieve the "dummy" in the yard every time. When I hit the bird in the field he will run and find it and stay with it until I come for it. For some reason in the field I believe he just wants to keep searching for birds. I do have to say he does bring them back on occasion. He is at the point now when I reach for the shotgun he runs to the door whining with his stub wagging ready for another days hunt and to me that is the best! I have enclosed a few photos from this years season with him retrieving a bird.